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From The Times

January 2, 2007

Why getting hitched is the real hitch for women

Carol Sarler

For those who like to begin every new year with predictions of the end of civilisation as we know it, here’s a cracker: married women are officially in the minority for the first time. Furthermore, the rise of the singleton is clearly going to continue with some ferocity, given her marked showing among the younger set: fewer than one in three women in her late twenties is married, compared with 85 per cent as recently as 30 years ago.

Thus, in a single generation, crumbles the aspiration that has steered centuries, during which marriage has traditionally been the highest aim of women (and their mothers), propelled by a truth universally acknowledged that a single woman in possession of good sense must be in want of a husband.

The change, without doubt, is on the part of women rather than attributable to any increased reluctance among men — as evidenced by yet more figures from the Office for National Statistics, showing that men who divorce are far more likely to give marriage another shot, while divorced women, once bitten, are twice shy of committing again.

In other words, their own experience has taught them what their younger sisters are working out for themselves: that marriage, these days, simply isn’t much of a deal for women. Certainly it services men and certainly, too, studies consistently show that more children thrive in homes with wedding rings aboard. Then again, plenty also thrive outside such conventional arrangement — a consideration easily invoked by a woman beginning to ask: “Bully for everyone else, but what’s in it for me?”

The blurring of the once careful demarcation of the respective roles of husband and wife has not served the latter well. Early feminists predicted that the second part of their struggle would be harder than the first; Gloria Steinem, in particular, railed that equality in paid labour would fall far short of victory without equality in unpaid labour and she is now proved to have been right. Where a husband used to bring home the bacon and a wife used to cook it, now she brings it home and cooks it; where both husband and wife work the same hours outside the home, she still does five times the work within it; where there are children she is overwhelmingly likely to be the one responsible for their maintenance and the convolutions of, for instance, their childcare arrangements.

It is no wonder that we encounter newly divorced women revelling in what feels almost like leisure: all the chores they did while married still need doing in exactly the same way — the only difference is that now they’re not cooking his bacon too. Husbands, they have discovered, can be darned hard work all by themselves.

Not that the divorce came as much of a surprise. One of the selling points of marriage to a woman used to be that it would provide security for her into her old age, teeth, lines and jowls notwithstanding. By contrast, approximately half of contemporary marriages will end in divorce — so she can strike security from her list marked pro.

Another selling point was protection: the wide-shouldered, steely-jawed, testosterone-fuelled barrier between a woman and harm’s way. Today, if we are to believe research from some women’s organisations, a quarter of wives will suffer at the hands of the protector himself. Whether this represents an increase in domestic violence or just in its reporting we cannot know; its prominence in public awareness, however, cannot but add to the notes of caution.

And then, of course, there is the matter of money. Once, all manner of misfortune seemed a fair swap for the working man’s wages that would compensate in measures of warm roofs and full stomachs. Now, at one end of the financial scale, we have women forlornly chasing the price of a hot meal from the Child Support Agency — or whichever phoenix is next planned to rise from its discredited ashes — while slowly realising that if they had remained single and on state benefit in the first place, life would be greatly eased.

At the other end of the financial scale, new indignities are piling up. In my own social circle we already have three instances of this: the woman married in the time-honoured way. Fuelled by that crazy little thing called love, houses were bought in joint names. Then, taking advantage of evolving career opportunities for women, the woman became the main breadwinner; he idled around, she did the day job as well as raising the children, until he not only buggered off with another but took with him half of the value of the home for which she had effectively paid everything, leaving her in significantly reduced circumstances.

So what, I hear you say. That has been happening to men for years. And so it has — but men have very, very rarely been left to share those reduced circumstances with the children. Yet again, the new order merges badly with the old: the new lets her earn the assets he strips; the old says that nappies are still her job, not his. So she must now rue that if only she had kept all that was hers for herself, never cementing a partnership, what a wiser, wealthier gal she’d have been.

Politicians of every stripe profess to despair of the decline of marriage, even though we know they would be bereft without such a convenient — if wholly unproven — scapegoat for all ill. I suspect that they need not worry; that the decline will continue with or without their help. The scale of the exodus of young women from orthodox union, along with their reasons for it, are such that it will take an awful lot more than a tax break here or there to change their minds.

The "real" reason marriage is on the decline is the fact their is nothing in it for men. Only punishment. If the marriage fails a man is left with supporting her and losing everything he's worked for. If he decides to cohabitate it's the same thing. He lives with her a certain number of years and loses everything. I think the author and all the other experts need to reveal the real reason marriage has taken a nosedive. It has nothing to do with females establishing careers or independence. Men are deciding their is nothing in it for them.

mike, youngstown, ohio

Yeah, the society is changing and we will have to find a way to adjust. We live in Canada, but my husband and I are European born and our kids had a hard time finding traditional mates. Our son said he wanted a real feminine woman and the girl he married was a career woman and she left him after 3 years. Our daughter found a guy who appreciates a girly-girl and they have a really good marriage. They both work, but he is still a very manly and a protector.
I find then that young men are not what they used to be and so are not young women.
But, to tell you the truth I wouldn want one of these new generation young men to be my husband if I was young again, simply because he wouldnt turn me on.

Slavica Krekic, Penticton BC, Canada

While there are undoubtedly dimwits who rush out of marriage as fast as they rush into it, this whole discussion is forgetting an important point: who's to say how happy or wonderful marriages were in the past? How many people happily entered into marriages over 50 years ago, and stayed that way?

There's no way to know. Let's be blunt and say this: women could not get out of bad marriages, and men had a lot harder time having sex outside of any marriage. Hence, more marriages. No one should be surprised at fewer marriages and more divorce today. People have not changed as much as the circumstances.

And as to the bitterness by both sexes here...ouch! (From a never married male, but one who is trying to get hitched, with both eyes open)

PG, Culver City, CA, USA

The article seems to describe a miiror universe compared to the situation here in the US, where marriage confers no substantive rights on the man, only obligations - what a lawyer would call an "adhesion contract". For women it's the other way around, which no doubt explains why there's a steady stream of books, articles, and TV shows (for women only) about how women can get the "Man Prize". Opting out is what smart men do here, in increasing numbers. Even dating is too dangerous.

Martian Bachelor, Colorado Springs, US

Women, and often men too, are going into marriage these days with unrealistic high expectations. To make a marriage work requires a lot of hard work and patience for both partners. Seeking divorce as a simple solution everytime a couple encounters a problem destroys the family structure. Nobody wins.

Sonia Robbins, Boston, USA

Liz Bell in Plymouth has it right - the changes to the institution of marriage are generational and evolutionary. They should be examined and understood, but not necessarily bemoaned. I have spent nine years documenting long-term marriages for a forthcoming book of portraits and interviews and it is clear to me that the current generation of those married for 40+ years are the last to view marriage as an essentially indissoluble bond. They also have a surprising range of opinions on the subject. Though this breed may be vanishing, their opinions and experience are invaluable to anyone contemplating marriage today. I am a 48-year-old American who is about to embark on a first marriage with a divorced UK citizen with two grown boys, and we're both thrilled to have found each other. There are exceptions to every rule!

Robert Fass, New York, NY

Count me among the people who see the decline of marriage as a good thing. People should ONLY take that plunge when they mean it, and reluctance means people are looking before they leap.

Lisa, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

Carole Sarler seems to forget that men, whether married or not, hand over fistfuls of support to women through the extra taxes that they pay - many billions of pounds of which are used to fund numerous welfare and support systems for women.

Statistically speaking, men pay far more in taxes than do women and they receive far less from the government in return.

charles williams, London,

After two mariages, each preceeded by long periods as a single I have come to the conclusion that marital status solves nothing. Whether remaining single, being married, or divorcing, all anyone is ever doing is trading one set of problems for another.

Bernhard Hoff, North Brunswick, NJ, USA

The "right" marriage escalates the two individuals to a dimension of life that one cannot experience as a single person. However, there is nothing wrong with choosing to remain single. What seems to be lost in today's world is the beauty of having a strong, solid relationship, a best friend to share life with everyday. Because all we ever hear about are marriage bust-ups, people thinking about marriage today are consumed by "What am I going to LOSE?" and never "What am I going to GAIN?" In the "right" marriage the GAINS far outweigh the LOSSES.

Sheryl Kurland, Orlando, FL, USA

The one thing most folks tend to overlook in their stumbling rush to cite reasons of selfishness on the part of the woman for remaining single, is never bothering to examine the old, traditional methods for washing up as a spinster.

The first one, and this I must own, is the unforgiveable crime of being overly plain and bookread (bookish being a natural consequence of having no social life, see plainess, above). Men in this city would rather spit on me and call me rude names, so that's that then.

The other traditional reason, and always valid, is the simple lack of available menfolk. The stats in Sydney are bad enough and that's before you discount the married, the criminal and the insane. And let's not forget the gay. I love my gay mates to bits, but let's not forget that of the half dozen gentleman I really, truly adored, five of them came out and one committed suicide. So that was that then.

Not economics, or career. Just sociology.

Jen Riddler, Sydney, Australia

Having been bitten by a divorce, NO WAY, would I ever get married, ever. Yes I am living with a woman, in a jointly owned house. Yes we do have children. Yes we both work, she actually earns more than me. And yes we both bring up the children and maintain the house. I do all the grocery shopping, 95% of the cooking, all the DIY, virtually all the gardening, a lot of house work, laundry, and look after the children.

"...until he not only buggered off with another but took with him half of the value of the home for which she had effectively paid everything, leaving her in significantly reduced circumstances." My divorce lawyer informed me that a normal split is 75% to the woman, even though my wife at the time worked. Her lawyer tried to get 95% of all our joint property, plus some that wasn't even hers! Where children are involved, the woman gets practically everything.

Angus, Yateley, UK

Oh, spot on! Post-divorce from a man who made less than I did and worked fewer hours but left his dirty clothes on the floor in a trail in the order in which he took them off and yelled "What's for dinner?" down the stairs, not breaking from playing video games, when I arrived home two hours after him, I felt like Christmas and my birthday had come on the same day. I now date...with no intention of marrying... a wonderful man 10 years younger than me who knows how to fold fitted bed sheets!

Tracey Roth, Danbury, Connecticut, USA,

Unless men are provided with some greater protection for their family life, such as co-parentship, they are unlikely to be willing to invest time, resources and effort in marriage or children in the future.

The debate has become very skewed and mens' rights are clearly not being respected. Perhaps more importantly how does a man, or a woman, bring up a son today knowing that their chances of a family life are increasingly limited?

James, London, UK

James, London,

Reading the comments I wonder how the human race is going to continue, in western, advanced, industrial nations, in the future other than through all forms of artificial insemination. Perhaps many more who get married will take it seriously and view it as a partnership to support and enhance one another and not one designed to disadvantage one partner or the other. Marriage should not be seen as a "meal-ticket" for those who enter into short-term agreements and perhaps everyone should consider binding pre-nuptial agreements to ensure the system is not abused. However, the trite comments of T Roth of Danbury, are sad because they indicate more than a degree of bitterness, perhaps dislike or even hatred, of the male population and that is one aspect of the rise of feminism over the last 3 or 4 decades and what appears to be the efforts of some women to appear more masculine.

Kenneth Armitage, Suffolk, England

Reading most of the men's comments on here is making me howl with laughter. And they wonder why we aren't marrying them anymore? Infantile, self-centered, self-pitying, ego-centric, misogynistic and bitter are the words that come to mind. The female gender rests its case. And to the poster who points out all the 30-something women on Match.com, did it ever occur to you that they're just looking for sex?

T. Roth, Danbury, CT, USA

T. Roth, Danbury, CT, USA,

Women are not the only ones who are responsible for the decline in marriage. This article is one-sided. It only focuses on women, but researchers need to come to a realisation that men are equally responsible. Plenty of men I know would rather be tortured to death than get married. I know I am one. Most contemporary men like me are also very apt in the domestic realm because many of us grew up in single-parent families headed by our mothers and were therefore taught how to handle things in the domestic realm. We can out-cook and out-clean some women, so we don't need women to do for us. If, by some insane governmental intervention, I was forced to marry (sarcasm intented), I would be immensely offended if my wife cooked and cleaned up after me because I would suspect that she is covertly insinuating that I am incapable of doing for myself. If women believe they are solely responsible for the marriage decline, they can keep on believing that ... but they are sadly mistaken.

Max

Max, ,

This was a poorly written and highly biased article that did little to expose the true reasons for the decline of marriage. Of course it's well known that the majority of divorces are initiated by women. For decades ultra-feminist dogma has been broadcasting that marriage is oppressive by nature to women and ultimately disposable. So why should we surprised at this '"exodus of young women"? But now the pendulum is swinging in the other direction. Men are becoming aware that marriage is a losing proposition and avoiding it in record numbers. A man faces a greater than 50 percent chance of divorce and when it happens he is likely to lose more than half of his possessions along with custody of the children due to heavily biased family courts (not to mention predatory domestic abuse laws that reward false accusations - a staple of divorce here in the USA).

Anonymous, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

anonymous, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

Another gynocentric and misandric masterpiece. Bravo.

Great propaganda piece -- if you're a narcissistic woman...

anon, anon, anon

Marriage is a combination of inter-dependency, common goals and love, among other things; and is more akin a partnership. Anyone that thinks otherwise is living in a fairyland. The notion that love conquers all is also wrong, as the love between a man and a woman is conditional (ie, on condition that the woman returns his love, does not betray his trust, etc). This is different from the unconditional love that parents have for their children (in most cases anyway). Evolution has led men to thrive in an alpha role in the family. Old-fashioned men, such as myself, feel great satisfaction in "providing" for our spouses and children. I personally could never be in a relationship with a career woman because it would be meaningless for me. Of course, this is a generalisation and there are many contradicting cases. And to feminists, do not assume that *all* women share your thoughts. My wife has always felt her calling in life was to raise children, which is just as noble as being some CEO.

Pete, Cov,

All the same old myths and misunderstandings reappear in this article. It's incorrect and offensive to state that "a quarter of wives will suffer at the hands of the protector himself ". The actual statistics, from the Brisith Crime survey, state that a quarter of ALL WOMEN will experience domestic violence AT SOME POINT IN THEIR LIVES - not "at the hands of their husbands". And the same survey shows that 1 in 6 men will suffer domestic violence at some point too.

The claim that women do hugely more work is also very debatable. A CIVITAS report recently showed that on average wives in full-time work do fewer hours than their husbands. The same report showed that husbands and wives, overall, have very similar amounts of leisure time.

The idea that losing your children on divorce is some kind of advantage is also completely bizarre! It is true that marriage offers few benfits to many women - but it offers no benefits at all to most men.

Malcolm Lochhead, UK

Malcolm Lochhead, , UK

Ted, Italy: What "problem" are you referring to? Why should the fact that many women are choosing to stay single be interpreted as a problem? I'm a divorced, happy, single mother of two. Yes, I have had to do all the household chores, gardening, decorating and child rearing, as well as work, but I was doing all that anyway! All I lost was a man who thought that if he didn't like doing a particular task, then he was excused. There are still a lot of men out there who seem to think that they do not have to do the unpaid jobs around the house. I have, hopefully, brought up two boys who think differently.

This divorcee is definitely "once bitten, twice shy". I like men, I like male company, I just don't want to be married to one.

Anon

, ,

"And so it has - but men have very, very rarely been left to share those reduced circumstances with the children."

What weakens your argument - and credibility, is the thoughtlesness of such a statement. Your glibness, obvious ignorance and arid view of a ruined relationship and its horrendous consequences is a salutory lesson in bigotry. Moreover your lack of balance and overall questionable humanity betrayed by this article will not find you respect amongst women, let alone men.

To my mind therefore we need no lessons from you about "relationships". How dare you presume to know what life is like as a man. You have no concept - and your column serves no discernable purpose in enlightening your readership as a consequence.

Tim Reilly, North Luffenham, Rutland

I think the fact so many things are "instant" in Western society has helped lead to the decline of marriage.

To co-exist happily with someone for years and years requires compromise, understanding and a willingness to apologise and forgive and people wonder if it is worth the trouble.

The fact is that meaningful and lasting relationships take work and much time to develop. They will never be formed and maintained with complete ease and that is why they mean more than say a one- night stand or a four-week relationship that began with a speed-date.

Catherine O'Dowd, Barnsley, England

Presumably as it takes two to tango, there are an equal number of young men no longer getting married in the way they used to? Is it all that women see no need to marry, or could it perhaps be that BOTH young men and women aren't getting married or seeing the need to marry ? The change in society to a 'me' culture effects men and women equally - everyone wants it all, and marriage can be an expensive barrier to that. But obviously its easier just to play gender politics.

Nik Hanes, Tunbridge Wells, Kent

One place where relationships seem to be going in full swing is in small towns in the southern US. Contrary to all the lonely singletons I saw when I was living in New York City, everyone here seems to be happily coupled up - from the high school students to couples in their late 30's. I don't know what the stats are here, but someone needs to study what couples in the south are doing right. Men and women actually seem to like each other here!

sylvia, Atlanta, GA, USA

This article makes many assumptions, one of which is that only women now see no value in marriage.

If women are independent and want to have casual sex, then why would any thoughtful man want to bother with marriage?

He can instead focus on his own lifestyle, choose the carreer that suits him without worrying about the status it provides. He can enjoy a lifestyle of leisure with money to spend on his hobbies and interests. He is too independent and has no one to answer for but himself.

Women gravitate toward him because he is his own man, he cannot be manipulated, he will not supplicate to women. He has his mates, money, free time and sex on tap. He may have liked to get married at one point, but he saw how many other men around him are slaves to their jobs, and wives and the consequences of divorce is the penniless man living away from his children, half his assets lost and paying maintainance.

He is happy with his lot and sees marriage as modern slavery.

Johnty

Johnty, ,

Whoever said marriage is right for EVERYONE. Male or female.

Women are more likely to be the initiator of divorce as men seem to stop trying.

They lose interest in long term relationships/marriage.

So is it any wonder women file for divorce?

Eloise Goodman, San Francisco, CA, USA

eloise goodman, san francisco, ca

T. Roth, we are not wondering why women are not marrying us anymore. We simply do not care. What concerns some of us, though, is that the article failed to state that men are just as responsible for the decline in marriage. Women constantly say, "I don't need a man." Some men have adopted the same philosophical quote - of course, with the gender reversed. Women are not the only ones who have changed over the last 30 years. Men have, too. We are fully capable of staying single and living a happy life, despite what some so-called "studies" and "research" claim.

Anon

, ,

In the years before the sixties, marriage for the majority did mean for life but that does not mean that people were happy with marriage, just that they accepted their lot. As a child of the thirties and forties I can remember much unhappiness within marriage. It is part of mankind that he has not found the true meaning of love and the desire to change oneself in order to accommodate someone you love and to grow and mature at the hands of another you love and respect. This applies to both man and woman and the problems of modern divorce obscure the meaning of marriage or a permanent relationship which is meant to be outside the interference of government.

Alan Grocock, Huntingdon, Cambs

What a self-centred, selfish and infantile bunch most of you are. Thank goodness most of you have decided against marriage. Do me another favour will you? Don't have any children.

Cliff Pooley, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

I'm a husband and father with a wife and three daughters. We've been married 22 years and our children are 21(Saturday), 18 and 15.

"Husbands, they have discovered, can be darned hard work all by themselves".

My role as husband, father and resident male is beyond the bounds of this article and makes the comment look almost laughable.

With one daughter at uni, another going in 3 weeks and a 3rd doing GCSEs this summer, my impression is that my role is almost heroic!

Paul Ainsworth, Preston, UK

I am religious, old-fashioned and married. I love it!

But I can understand why girls don't want to get married. What I don't understand is why people who have been living together for years and years, suddenly decide to get married? And why are there so many people getting hitched three, four, FIVE times? And why is the wedding business thriving?

Marriage is a thorny issue. I don't think you'll find a contentedly married individual writing an article like this, nor will you find somebody who is unmarried/divorced to write about the virtues of marriage. And where are these young girls taking part in the exodus? The single girls I know would love to be married (to the right person, keeping their own identity and still earning). I have to confess, though, that my ambitions in life cooled considerably when I got married, and it worries me sometimes.

Maretha Davel Joubert, Reading, UK

There are many reasons for the rise in people simply living together, none of which were touched on by this writer. This once great publication is really scraping the barrel these days in its endeavours to pick the trends to follow. Obviously I don't expect my comment to be shown.

Frank H., London,

That's a pretty cynical view of marriage! The vast majority of my friends are married, and very happily so. Because of the commitment that they made they have learned to work through the tough times to achieve the successor to romantic love, which is called simply "love". Almost all of them have children who also give them grief at times, but again they have learned that working together to resove the problems has taught them lessons they would otherwise never have learned, and is building a lifelong bond with these children while training them how to be good parents. I have to admit that these friends are all Christians, and therefore have an unfair advantage in that they receive help both direct from God, but also indirectly through the Christian family (known to others as the church).

Michael Clark, Haslemere, Surrey, UK

Michael Clark, Haslemere, Surrey

Men are being set up for failure. Women are more intent on throwing men ballast instead of life jackets, even if it means that they both sink.

James Hickey, Victoria, Australia

Ms Sarler uses statistical "evidence" like tinsel - she decorates her article with it, in order to make it look attractive and "worthy", caring not whether the evidence actually furthers her point.

This article is full of emotion and opinion, but lacking in substance.

Jason Theodorou

Jason Theodorou, ,

Ho um, yet another typical male-bashing article.

As far as I am concerned, marriage has few advantages to men, either. It is wome, as well as men, who find it easy to give up marriage in today's 'me me me'-driven culture.

Steve, Tewksbury, Glocs

This will make me unpopular, but I believe a large part of the problem is radical feminism which has made women into men and men into women. How, in these circumstances, is a marriage ever going to work? We have to go back to having some of the values and roles that existed before the 1960s, but without the chauvinism.

Ted, , Italy

"marriage, these days, simply isn’t much of a deal for women. Certainly it services men" - could the author please explain the 'certainty' she is so, um, certain of?I cannot for the life of me see any benefit to men in marriage. Maybe it gives you a shot at seeing your kids when you divorce, as unmarried fathers have next to no rights to see their children in the event of a relationship breakdown.

Alex McGregor, Plymouth, UK

I'm really sorry I wasted time reading this article - no examination of the causes of marriage's shrinking popularity, and absolutely no development of the headline. Aside from the fact that women have largely found themselves in this situation through years of misguided 'feminism', the oft-repeated assertion that single-mum benefits scroungers somehow have it 'easy', or have a nicer life than someone earning a living wage, is so ludicrous that one wonders why newspaper columnists keep wheeling it out. Has the author ever actually seen a council estate? And to moan about a female friend being given what was presumably automatic custody of her children... in these matters it's easy to be wise after the event.

The problem is, marriage is seen as so disposable these days - everything has to be perfect or the 'D' word crops up and it's off back to Mummy and Daddy. Divorce is up because commitment, decency and principles are down - and there's no easy solution to those ills I'm afraid.

Adam Neilson (25), ,

I am a divorced father of one son. When I married my ex-wife, I paid off her debts and she came into the marriage with no financial asset. Within 6 months of the birth of our son she told me men shouldn't be involved in bringing up children and wanted me out the house.

For 4 years there have been problems with trying to see my son. I have seen the radical feminist literature from her university days and although have had relationships with women who have wanted to progress to children, I have had to end it.

This is sad for them (men not committing), sad for me and not good for society.

My son will be made well aware of the dangers of marriage for men in the Western world. I hope he shuns all personal wealth and moves to a country where he will be appreciated as a man.

Luke, Burton, England

luke, Burton, England

It seems that most people are looking at marriage in financial terms only. They are doing a quick cost-benefit analysis and coming to the conclusion that it is not worth it. If it was only based on financial terms, no one will ever get married or have chidren. I think that human beings can operate on a higher plane and can think of, difficult to quantify, benefits.

Vinay Mehra, Purley, Surrey, UK

Vinay Mehra, Purley, Surrey

Marriage is dying because of radical feminism, which teaches young women that marriage is oppression, that men are the enemy, that women's best chance for fullfillment is a career, not raising children. I've been married, and divorced, and I worked two jobs doing dangerous work just to pay the bills while my ex-wife spent money faster than I could earn it. Marriage is merely a way for women to take men's money, children and property away from him with the full power and blessing of the state behind them. That is why men are shunning marriage, they are waking up to the fact it's foolhardy and a quick way to poverty the moment their wife leaves.

Taras, USA

Taras, , USA

The article seems a bit unrealistic. Most of the men I know, virtually all, actually, either refuse to get married, or if they have been married, refuse to even consider a second marraige.

I'm sure there are women who are questioning the benefits of marraige, and I don't blame them, but the main reason that the rate of marraige will continue to decline is that men, having observed forty years of other men being ruined financially in the divorce courts, are waking up and finding that they really have nothing to gain from any kind of serious involvement with the opposite sex.

That's no slam against women. It's just a pragmatic assessment of the realities of marraige. Get married, get wiped out. That's pretty simple.

Christopher, Seattle, US

Christopher, Seattle, U.S.

Fewer children are being born in all the G8 countries, which is a result of women's greater educational and work opportunities.

It follows that women who can control their own fertility and support themselves are likely to take the next logical step, which is to avoid the marriage/baby business altogether.

Even where women and men live together as couples, whether married or not, they are having two, one or no offspring at all instead of the three, four or more of our grandparents' generation.

So it's not just a peculiar whim of modern women - it's part of a general trend away from domesticity and childrearing, in western Europe and the USA at least.

I'm off to the gym now, while my (second) husband plays golf. This is OUR time!

Christine, Chester, UK

Great post by Tim Reilly.

Carol Sarler doesn't seem to have noticed a rather obvious reason why "men who divorce are far more likely to give marriage another shot, while divorced women, once bitten, are twice shy of committing again." Once a woman gets married, she is financially made for life, as witness the young woman who recently got divorced from a millionaire after a brief childless marriage and walked away with several million pounds. Why on earth would she want to get married again? God forbid she do so and then end up divorced - that might mean that some bloke would walk away with her little nest egg of somebody else's money! Can't have that! Much better to enjoy the leisure and his money! Women don't remarry for the same reason that millionaires retire early.

Men, on the other hand, remarry more often because they are so often beggared by the divorce that they cannot afford to remain single.

John, London

John, London,

There is no over population problem.

The fact is, societies which have been feminized are ALL in decline. There is virtually NO western society that is sustaining it's popluation.

While providing women with every possible opportunity for economic equality we've lost something of importance. Namely, the ability to sustain our societies.

There is a possibility that immigration can have an impact, but that is not really the same society is it?

What has really happened is that forced (and, yes artificial) gender equality is trumping biology and society.

David, Portland, USA

David, portland, USA

Yep, 'tis true, marriage is now riskier for women than it has ever been. But for men, it is still far riskier, given the anti-father/man bias of courts and society at large. One thing the article mentioned was that an increased risk for women is a husband leaving "with half" and also leaving her with the kids. Well, plenty of men would love custody of their kids but can't since single-custody awards are the norm and 90% of the time, they go to the missus. So you can't blame men for that. Blame the courts instead. And as for domestic violance, again, it happens as much to men as it does to women, and the author doesn't mention that.

I am a 38 single white male and have never married. Never plan to, either. It's too risky and just like the women discussed in this article, why should I risk it all like that, and for what? I don't see the reason anyone would want to get married and have kids anymore.

Matt, Henrietta, NY, USA

This is somewhat true. I've seen it go both ways but women should raise the kids since the majority of them are better at it. I would be a great husband. I don't mind doing chores, cooking, cleaning or taking care of kids but I can't find a woman to save my life, or at least one without kids or excessive baggage.

People like to blame this shift on feminism but it really isn't feminism. It's non-feminist females that abhor the white male patriarchy system. They have reason to hate it. These days women are cheating more than men. Women are becoming more like men and men are becoming more like women. I think it's a depopulation plot by the rich against the middle and lower classes.

You cannot have equality for women in the workplace and then have women fill traditional roles at home. Women have shown that they cannot turn that switch on and off everyday. I'm not even sure they should have to honestly.

George Thompson, Charlotte, NC/USA

It may be true that some women see no advantage to marriage, but it is equally true that many women ask for divorce, leaving men with many of the responsibilities they carried during marriage, and no family life. The Government is leaving men vulnerable to years of harassment, and I think we are reaching the stage when men will not want, or ask for, a shared relationship or commitment. The Government is devaluing love, marriage and children by failing to understand that you cannot demand that men do everything on behalf of their former wives divorce.

Alan Grocock, Huntingdon, Cambs

The problem is that people are getting married because they want a nice party, and they think it will solve all their relationship problems. When this doesn't happen they divorce and then assume that marriage is a terrible thing. If people would only wait to find the right person first, then there would be a far lower divorce rate. That said, in society today there is no reason to get marrried other than for show. It is, however, a show I will soon be involved in myself.

Andy, Reading,

If anyone spoke in favour of slavery or bonded labour today everyone would be horrified and castigate the speaker, and yet since the industrial revolution marriage has come to mean exactly that for women – slavery with no relief and no security either, with only the character of the husband as any relief or assurance against all possible horrors, and little or no relief from society against all sorts of atrocities. This might sound extreme unless you are a witness to such horrors and don’t conveniently blame the victims – most people do, to put their consciences to sleep in comfort.

Unless and until traditional roles of women have at least equal respect, this trend against marriage with capable women opting out is not going to stop. There is no work more worthy than bringing humans into this world and raising them into decent humans, and most mothers do their best at it too. That they can do the breadwinning and thinking just as well needs no proof; neither does the fact that they have it harder, and yet do it all, while shielding children as best as they can and providing all they humanly can. That the men can walk away or worse is due to a social, and often legal, lack of punishment for such behaviour.

If society took care of its daughters and mothers and did not proceed to reward those males who behave abominably, feminism would not exist; it exists because there was desperate need to save lives.

Dr. J. Gokhale, Bangalore, India

Dr. J. Gokhale, Bangalore,, India.

Fortunately, I was able to get divorced in the US (rather than in the outrageously femininized UK system). Now, the woman I supported for 15 years after she gave up work against my wishes has had to get off her backside and work. Here, equality means equality. Moreover, as a completely capable, self-sufficient man, I am very aware of what a fantasy it is that "housework" is a full-time job.

It is hilarious to hear a woman moaning that some women now have to support men who made less than them during their marriage. Men have had to put up with that for decades.

Name and address witheld, USA

Name and address witheld, , USA

I live in Phoenix, Arizona, the 5th largest US city. I'm single, successful, own my own company and am 36 years old. The Phoenix area has huge numbers of single people. Today, there are 176 single women in this town who are precisely 36 years old with profiles on Match.com, one of many dating websites. Guesstimate that the total number of 36 year old women who are single when you add up the membership of all the dating websites plus those who are single but are not a member of a dating website, and there are perhaps 500-1000 single women who are exactly 36 years old, seeking men, just in the Phoenix area. There are even larger numbers of single men in any age group.

In this "age of communication" I see more successful, eligible, kind, amazing people who are all unhappily single. They still can't find their partners with the reach of the global internet. Marriage may be out. Loneliness is "in" and it is everywhere you look.

O.Sommer, Phoenix, Arizona, USA

As a gay man I don't give a fiddler's monkey whether women get married or not. And with overpopulation overtaking us, I think peope should stop having children anyway, and give the planet a break.

Mark Mulligan, Shepherdstown, USA, West Virginia

There is a definite change in attitudes of people, young and old, to the "institution" of marriage. I don't feel that too much lip service needs to be paid to the whys and wherefores of these changes, but more should be done to recognise that they are happening and that perhaps the organisation of our society needs reflect these changing attitudes. Stop condemning those who don't feel that they have to cement their relationships by spending thousands of pounds on one day of their lives and start respecting that they have made a life choice which they believe is best for them, either as a couple or an individual.

Liz Bell, Plymouth, UK

I have to smile wryly when a man of 25 can pompously assert that “women have largely found themselves in this situation through years of misguided 'feminism' and talk despairingly of the decline in principles and decency. Thanks to “misguided feminism” I have been able to get a mortgage in my own right and not require a husband or father to act as guarantor, be paid the same salary as a man to enable me to afford a home of my own in the first place, and have access to the same career and educational opportunities as men.

“Misguided feminism” has given me choices denied to previous generations of women including remaining single or divorcing. Unlike that young man, I would never regard an increase in personal choices as being a sign of declining standards. Quite the reverse!

As for me, not only am I far too much of a romantic to ever want to put up with the mundane realities of married life, I also like to feel that by not getting married I am helping to keep the divorce rates down!

Kate Winspur, Highgate, London

The comments about division of labour at home apply equally to couples who cohabit and doesn't explain the decline in popularity of marriage. Based on observation, I would put the decline in the popularity of marriage down to men in their thirties often being very slow to grow up these days. I think many women still aspire both to marriage and to being the main home-maker. However, today we have so many choices, it's easy to undervalue long-term love and commitment.

Jessica, Oxford, UK

Yet again, another poorly informed poke at marriage predicated on the basis that all men and ignorant, lazy, money makers, and all women are heroines of the cause, bearing children, career and domestic bliss on their own. Both assertions are not only wrong but deeply offensive.

Marriage can be a wonderful seal on a long term relationship. Marriage is crumbling for some because relationships (which should be an essential part of our society) have been turned into a consumerist, individualist commodity that one must attain to complete one's portfolio of 'things'.

Marriage is essentially a sacrificial relationship on both parts, each person contributing, recieving and giving away different things at different times to the building and betterment of the other. Perhaps a counter piece on what makes a great marriage would be an antidote to this rather bitter piece?

Tim, London,

It's facile to say that not getting married = being in the ‘me’ generation. Excuse me but a lot of people get married for the exact reason that they are self-obsessed – so they can be the centre of attention and squeeze expensive gifts out of friends and relatives. I have been with my man for 12 years and he is perfect. We see no reason to get married because we do not see what difference it will make to our relationship, except maybe bankrupt us. I would say we already feel ‘married’ but then that does us a disservice as we get on brilliantly, have lots of laughs and are together because we want to be, not because of a legal contract.

Gill, London,

Human nature isn't always as it appears in this article. I began living with my partner, with no intention of ever marrying, 39 years ago. Long before it became accceptable for women to do so. I had a son after 3 years and early afterwards realised I had made a bad mistake. Then, it was nearly impossible for an unmarried mother to support a child to a reasonable standard and I remained with my partner. Events over the years conspired to ensure this remained so, not least seven years battling cancer which ended May 2006 with a cure. I have actively loathed my partner for well over these past 7 years, nearer double that, but can't deny he did what he could, to make my life easier. He is 20 years older than I, in his 80s and becoming frail. There is no way I would leave him now to cope alone, no matter how attractive that idea is. Whether you live with someone either within marriage or not, some considerations and loyalties override all else.

Dmc, , UK

It has to be asked whether an important motive for the man to marry once was the relative difficulty of getting regular sexual intercourse outside of marriage -this before sex outside of marriage became more acceptable (or indeed compulsory?)

Edward Johns, Lannion, FRANCE

Did I write this in my sleep? It's exactly why I have never bothered with marriage!

Adi, Macclesfield, UK

As a (lazy) unattractive bloke I could never understand why women would want to get married. I have little to offer the independent women of today. The cost of living in the UK is so high. without the additional burden of £100K or more for each child we bring into this overcrowded arena. Paying off university loans, paying for a first property, and then worrying about pensions/retirement, is it any wonder that both (intelligent) men and women forgo the expense of children and hence marriage. In this consumer 'Click to make me Happy' world, many of us are destined to lead sad lives, interrupted by the occasional short term relationships.

Bob, Wimbledon, London

Divorced women being happier doesn't mean that marriage is bad. It means that bad marriages are bad. The more pre-marital cohabitations spouses have been involved in the less likely the marriage is to last. So non-marital cohabitation is linked with divorce (which, presumably, is linked to bad marriages). Also, women are far likely to be beaten up by men they are just living with rather than husbands. Please don't encourage the end of marriage: an institution which, in general, protects women.

Alan Bright, London,

As a male chauvinist I am a big fan of all feminists for exactly those two reasons. Before, the man was obliged to provide the bacon and security to his wife. Today he is mostly relieved of those duties. When the men wouldn't have to marry at all they will be living in the perfect world. Prostitution is more fair than this thing called marriage.

student, ,

Oh so true!!!!! Once bitten, now very, very shy indeed... Except that, while single is fun, celibate isn't. Could this be the reason for the rise of the "POW", or "Predatory Older Woman" ?!

Nicky Jenkins, Guildford, Surrey