From this alarm over marriage rates, it appears that the nation is still in the clutches of "middle class morality", as G.B. Shaw described it. At least the argument for marriage seems to have moved away from the legitimization of what would otherwise be fornication. But otherwise the outrage about low marriage rates doesn't sound any different from what had people all atwitter when Victoria was monarch. Get over it. Lifelong, monogamous coupling is simply not the natural state for most human beings.

Bernhard Hoff, Norht Brunswick, NJ, USA

I have spent my whole life as a girlfriend. When I was younger I didn’t see the point of marriage though I always wanted a mate for life. At 41, I am still looking for a mate, but very much want him to be a husband. Legal marriage really does make a difference, it is much more than a “piece of paper.”

I want what I am willing to give: a full commitment, full sharing, and lifelong devotion, regardless of the annoyances and problems on the way.

Shawn Cunningham, San Gabriel, CA, USA

Marriage? I prefer to spend 40 years at hard labor in a Ugandan prison. Fellas, it's a jungle out there. Be careful.

Dave, Stafford, Virginia, USA

Let's admit it. Marriage is wonderful. Why do people get married because it's a magical thing. Even just getting engaged, you feel more secure and loved and it means the searching for that person has ended. And start a new life, a new stage. Of course, marriage has ups and downs. But with being married, if problems occur, it doesn't mean that's the end of marriage. You have to work things out. Couples go through different phases. Sometimes, having problems help cement your relationship, makes you both stronger and even better. The reason we don't encourage co-habiting is that, if you encounter problems, it's so easy for a partner to think it's not meant to be and so easy to leave. and start another relationship and then the cycle goes on. Until you end up being on your own. Even children feel secure to know that their parents are married. How can you teach honour and commitment to your children. If as a parent, you don't even believe in it.

mary james, aylesbury,

Does encouraging more people to get married mean that more people are going to stay together... or is it simply a way of getting people to spend vast quantities of hard earned cash on both weddings AND divorces to keep the economy going around?

This view that marriage necessarily leads to happy, fulfilled lives is outdated and at least the current Government has the foresight to recognise this and move with the times. The conservatives are once again proving that they can't throw off old-fashioned stigma. The men will soon all be working back down't pit and women will be chained to kitchen sinks again if we take their lead.

Avalon, Huddersfield, England

Does Jasper really think that this is purely about getting sex at the lowest price? How sad.

Rebecca, Aberystwyth, UK

I've been with my partner for 14 yrs we have a son and are committed to each other...why do we need to get married....what will it prove and to whom. The government should let people live how they choose and with whom they choose. STOP meddling. We are living in a changing country with changing ideals and values. Treat each person as an individual for Tax, savings, child care etc and allow people to register partners (same or opposite sex) for inheritance tax, pensions etc. if they wish to do so. Making or encouraging people to get married won’t stop them splitting up in 3 years time and it won’t build stable and loving homes.

rob, ashford, kent

"Thats why our country is in moral decline"

No, it is NOT! It's because people can't be bothered to raise their kids properly. It's got nothing to do with whether they wore a meringue at some point in their lives or not. There are other countries where marriage is a lot less common, but which do have a much more pleasant society.

I wish this country would leave the fifties behind once and for all.

Starling, Lancaster,

Marriage is publically showing that you are committed to this person, that you are making a seriousattempt for the relationship to work, and to hopefully create a life long family. What does it say to the children if mum and dad think so little of themselves and the relationship not to make this commitment? Marriage makes no guarantees, but it does make a statement.

Michele, New York,

Why should I cook, clean, do laundry, or even have children with a man who won't publically commit to me? Why should he take out the trash, change my car's oil, pay my bills, or entrust children to me if I won't publically commit to him? What does it say to the children if mum and dad think so little of each other that they won't tell the world they are making a serious go of this relationship and trying to make a stable family. Cohabitating couples want the rights but not the responsibilities of marriage. A piece of paper doesn't make any guarantees but it does make a statement.

Michele, New York,

Heather Mills is proving to the world how ridiculous it is to get married. First your wife messes you up and then law steps in to complete the treatment. For men it is an unsound business opportunity. Men should be able to find sex at a much lower price. Law has distorted the market.

Jasper, Greenwich,

A few people have said that they wouldn't get married because of the unfairness of the divorce process, the women getting the house, children, maintenance payments etc. If you have these misgivings about your future with your partner then you are right not to get married!I am getting married later this year and have never once worried about any of these issues. I love my partner, they love me and we are getting married bacause we know this relationship is going to last.

Cath, London,

But they do stay together, John. In places like Sweden and Holland, living together has been perfectly normal for decades, and these people are just as dedicated to each other as married couples are. You'd be perfectly stupid to have 3 kids if you're not dedicated to each other.

My partner is the love of my life. But we're not getting married, even though it's sorely tempting, since my mum said "the family would appreciate it if you didn't".

Marriage is hopelessly old-fashioned, and people who think it's the cornerstone of civilisation are deluding themselves (see Sweden: I know where I'd rather live, hint, it's not Britain).

Starling, Lancaster,

My partner and I have lived together for well over 10 years. We have no children and no intention of getting married, not least because I am old enough to see how it has adversely affected the relationships of friends and relatives, and the expectations put upon married women in the workplace and home. Our two issues are inheritance rights (mainly taxes) and medical access should one or the other fall ill. If only civil partnerships were available to all adults.

Tracy, Oxfordshire,

As usual, both sides of the debate have strong arguments going for them. Iain puts the case well for the raw deal that marriage can be for fathers if it falls apart, whilst the fact remains that stable marriages tend to produce more rounded children.

Maybe divorce should not be so easy to go through with, and certainly not to the huge disadvantage of the father. Too much power to any one side in a relationship is usually unhelpful.

Chris, Reading,

A bit off topic, but why do we need to "shop around" before we find the right person as Monica suggests? In six weeks I'm marrying my first boyfriend (I'm 24). Should I be worried that I might not know what I'm doing after all, because I haven't "road-tested" dozens of other men first...? I am perfectly sure that he's the right person to settle down with - without going through a million disastrous relationships first!

Otherwise, I agree with Simon Clark that bribing people into staying together is aa) ineffectual and b) just really depressing.

Aimee, Oxford,

Why doesn't the government create tax benefits for marriage? Why does the govt have to spend money, to encourage relationships, when it could just encourage marriage through tax incentives after a certain period? Marriage tends to be an expensive business: think rings, parties, the ceremony etc, surely this deters people who see that there are otherwise hardly any advantages to a marriage when they can co habit?

I want to marry my partner but the cost for a nice event is the largest barrier. Why not incentivise it for us both through increased tax free allowance or reduced tax rates???

Harry, London,

In India where I come from, getting married is very easy and separating is relatively difficult. In the UK the things are different, I think getting and separating after marriage should be equally difficult, this will ensure more stable marriages!!

Preshit, Wadebridge, Cornwall

Save... house .... save wedding ... save kids. Whilst the insentives would encourage those who are not committed to 'give it a go anway' I for one could use the money to mean that we can afford to have Children as for whatever the law says, I may be working somewhere where I will not be sure I would have a job to come back to!

In the meantime we will live together "in sin" as my grandma likes to call it and proud of it!

Sue, Weymouth,

Our society - particularly the media and popular press - actively promotes rampant promiscuity and has rendered infidelity, if not 'cool', acceptable, as it can be 'explained away' by behavioural psychology; it advocates sexual education for the very young and has made the idea of monogamy ridiculous. Marriage is an age-old tried and proven method of creating stability, security and dignity for those involved. We should not be blaming the institution of marriage for our high divorce rates and feeling of discontent: rather, the kind of society that we have permitted to grow up around us, which advocates praying to the great money god, accumulating great masses of material possessions at the expense of the simpler, more valuable things in life (dignity, companionship, friendship, natural beauty). Rather than taking such a defeatist and fatalistic approach to marriage, is it not more important to examine our own attitudes and question what has made an entire nation so commitment phobic?

Mara MacSeoinin, Cambridge,

As a British woman married to an American for 20+yrs with 2 children I have sympathy with the these gentlemen. I have often wondered myself - what on earth is in marriage for men? To describe it as a trap of social conformance for both parties is largely accurate. The fact that male and female physical and emotional hardwiring seem in diametric opposition only heightens the inherent tension. Its more a miracle that it ever works than when it doesn't. Our marriage has a lot of unhappy cycles but we made this choice. We work hard at our responsibilities (sometimes through gritted teeth) as civilized human beings and for our kids, who did not ask to be born. When in the throes of 'love' we forget that marriage is a business contract, albeit one with emotional caveats. A clear prenuptial agreement with a 50/50 share of all liabilities and assets prior to issuing a marriage license may help (even when both come to it with little to no assets). A pre-nup may make people thing twice, and if they fail to, still be held accountable for their fair share of commitments. I also advise thorough due diligence prior to marriage, so everyone has their eyes wide open. We check into future lifelong mates less than employers do into prospective new hires.

Fiona Wyszynski, Malvern, Pennsylvania, USA

This article shows the sad state of British relationships.
I was even more surprised by the have your say messages. The men writing above have massive airs of grandure! What a mis-trustful pecimisstic way to travel through life. I hope they remain rich, selfish and single. If they can't even conceive of a equal partnership in the modern age they should look about at marriages which are working now and worked in our parents generations. Marriage is about much more than who is earning what....
Nothing in life will ever be fair enough for lawyers or policy makers. Marriage is an institution which offers strength and comfort and recognised partnership. No wonder in a 'me me me' culture no-one can recognise it's value...

Alice, London,

I firmly believe in marriage, am approaching the "average age" for getting married, but haven't yet found the right person. As I have been lucky enough to have a good education, which has led to a career with guaranteed income, I haven't come across the same pressures my grandmother faced. Basically, I can support myself and didn't have to marry the first man I met just to ensure a good quality of life. In this age, I doubt that political pressure will be able to force me, or my many friends in a similar situation, to marry!

Sarah, London, UK

The price gouging for marriages is ridiculous. In a housing market as crazy as at the moment, where are people going to find another 15K to get married "properly" before or after buying a house - and when they do, what are the benefits? Marriage isn't given tax incentives so what's the point? That's why people don't get married. However it should be encouraged in order to give people the commitment to their partner and dependents rather than walking away after getting bored for a couple of years leaving us with a generation of kids with no father figure or discipline.

Spartacus, Guildford,

Thats why our country is in moral decline because there are no rules or standards set by "new families" who have no committment to each other as parents. The decline has come about since labour came to power as they have no feelings for the family unit and all they want is votes, and selfishly they don't care how they gain them. Single mothers can't discipline or control rowdy children nor have anything to look forward to but drudgery and constant money problems as they get older. I have been married for 30 years and we have a sound relationship having met when I lived in Rhodesia.

Mike, Ilkley, England

Is it better for children to grow up in a family who fell apart years ago but stays together only because they signed the paper? Or is it better when a child has both parets who love each other but chose not to marry? Love and respect is the means that hold people together, not the paper, that is why there are so many divoces in this country.

Dorothy, London,

I just sense bitter and twisted men here....

I think that most couples do view marriage as a luxury, because most of us now cant even afford to get a mortgage so how are you supposed to save for a wedding too. I know my husband and I had to wait a few years from moving into a house together before even thinking about paying for a wedding.

Marriage is not for everyone admittedly, but if you go into it thinking its going to fail and moaning about what you may or may not get in the divorce settlement then its pretty much a doomed relationship from the start. Get a grip!!

Mandy, Hampshire,

Whatever happened to the idea of marrying for undying love? My husband and I married 3 months ago, and it's the best thing that we could've done. We are so incredibly happy together, and solidifying our love with the bond of marriage is the ultimate way of showing how much we love each other. Of course, we would've loved each other just as much had we not married, but the commitment really means something to us.

Before I met my husband I was dating a string of unsuitable men. That way I knew for sure once I met the right man, and I thought it insane *not* to marry the man of my dreams when he asked me to.

I think it's important to do 'shop around' before settling down, and that when you do settle down to settle with the right person.

I am a hopelessly happily in love with my beautiful husband, and marriage was perfectly right for us.

Monica, London,

Why on earth should cohabiting couples get the same rights as married ones? Some people are cohabiting exactly because they don't want to be legally bound to their partner! That's also why the relationships don't last as long as marriages - they're not the same sort of relationships. Just moving in with someone isn't a statement of intent regarding staying together for life!

Jay, London,

Starling from Lancaster says quite reasonably, "As long as the parents are together, who cares if they're married?" And in a liberal society the answer should be "no-one".

But they don't stay together, and that is the root of our problem. We know now that children without both their parents suffer. Marriage is the means by which to hold people together, and that is for the good of the children themselves, but also for the good of everyone else who is affected by that family.

We have to be unselfish, and marriage is the way to get into that habit. And, yes, it benefits us all.

John Anthony, London,

My parents divorced when I was 12. As far as I can tell, my father moving out has done me no lasting damage. Whether parents are still sharing the same bed is immaterial, so long as they both remain involved in raising their children.

Marriage incentives are a ludicrous idea, as you can't bribe people into carrying on loving each other.

Simon Clark, London,

Not being married does not mean you're not committed, Cathy. I know a (Dutch) couple with three kids who have been together 10 years, and are definitely committed. They're just not married. So what?

Personally, my partner and I have decided to get married at 80. So we've got something to look forward to!

starling, Lancaster,

As long as the parents are together, who cares if they're married? People should be able to decide not to marry without problems with inheritance etc. It's been commonplace in other European centuries for a pretty long time.

(OT: why does the "remember me" button not work?)

Starling, Lancaster,

unfortunately women will be the net loser in the future. All the reasons stated above reinforce the disadvantages in the current system.

Marriage is a pre- requisitie for having stable offspring of known parentage and is carbon friendly due to the need of only one house; tv; fridge; etc. Men will vote with their 'feet' for want of a better word!

Divorce is a luxury that is the folly of the more developed nations. Women do not 'need' men and men do not 'need' kids. Marriage was cost effective and enabled each person greater freedom and independance.Unfortunately the opportsite is now true!

Contreception and low birth rate will push up taxes.

caz, GRAVESEND, kent

I dont' think marriage is for everybody and I would rather preserve it as an institution by only admitting those who take it as seriously as it should be taken. It is, after all, a legal contract with punitive financial and emotional penalties in case of breakage 'not to be entered into lightly'. I applaud all those who are self-aware enough to realize that they either don't want to make that sort of commitment or are temperamentally incapable of keeping it.
What I wish they would then do is realize that if you don't like the idea of commitment to another human being, creating another one (or more) is also a bad idea.

Cathy, Preston, Lancs

Iain you are spot on. I would advise my kids to never marry after my experience. Just when you are trying to rebuild your life after years of hell you have to pay useless solicitors charging astronomical rates to lose everything you've ever worked for. Oh and then try dealing with the csa. Guaranteed to blow your mind with their incompetance. It aint worth the aggro.

John, Bradford,

I couldn't agree more with Iain of Bedford, Beds.. The Law and the Government are reaping what they have sowed. In this day and age the best and most financially sensible way to live is in seperate houses. Then if your partner finds someone new, all you have to do is just change the locks.

David, Ascot, Berkshire

I am a British male and want to get married, however there is no fairness should divorce ensue. The children almost always stay with the mother, the house, etc. Child maintenance is fine, but maintenance to the ex-partner?

Scenario: man and woman get married. After 2 years he finds that she's repeatedly cheated on him and files for divorce. She keeps the kids, the house, gets maintenance payments. He loses half his health, loses his home and his children. That's fair isn't it?

Raj S, London, England

Why the fixation on marriage? Surely the kids don't gain when their parents money is spent on divorce lawyers. The fixation should be on educating people on how relationships work and the effect of separation on kids. If you wish do psychologically damage your children, at least do it knowingly.

Government should not be interfering in people's lives to push marriage either through the legal or tax systems.

Richard, Brussels,

How can a man want to rush into marriage, when if a marriage breaks down, the man is often booted out of the house, the kids are left with the mother--even if she is delinquent, abusive, alcolohic, or promiscuous, and the woman is further entitled to gouge the ex for most of his money?

Anyone watching the news will see how women can turn the situation to their advantage with some hefty emotional clobbering--coming out of a two year marriage with millions of completely unearned income! Without access to superb lawyers, the average guy would be totally crushed by this sort of public trampling.

There are so many unbalanced people now, thanks to absentee parents, second generation wealth, etc, that anyone, especially a man, who rushes into this sort of one-sided trap needs their head examined.

iain, bedford, beds

The government has tried its version of a shotgun marriage by making the man pay and pay.
Married or not the man suffers on the womans whim and the government muscle.
What is the point of marriage in the UK?

john cramer, strathfield, australia

One point not considered is, frankly, how difficult it is to marry. If a couple are, and have been, mobile (as many young professionals are) and subject to sudden changes in employment, they will struggle. Geographical mobility means they will often be unable to satisfy Church of England requirements for membership of a parish sufficiently far in advance to be able to arrange the ceremony with all its complications. The only alternative at that point is a civil ceremony, which represents an unacceptable intervention of the State into the private sphere (the State should recognise marriages, but not create them). A more welcoming, and simpler, Special Licence procedure from the Church of England (especially removing the requirement to discuss matters with the parish incumbent deprived of performing the service) would in itself be a major advance in such circumstances.

Anon, Cambridge,