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From
September 25, 2007
Yes, we are bovvered
Why do so many teenage girls play up to the slutty, binge-drinking image promoted by lads’ mags? Whatever happened to hard-won feminism?
It was a column last year by Rosie Boycott, the writer and broadcaster, that first sounded an alarm bell. She was reeling from having read one of the younger lads mags (read by schoolboys as well as young adult males), in which every woman who had achieved something in her own right – other than possessing a great pair of boobs - was routinely dismissed as a boot-faced minger or dyke. Dame Ellen MacArthur, who had just achieved another nautical first, came in for a particular drubbing: “a miserable, sobbing, whining bitch in a boat. . . basically a frigid dyke-looking, yachting c***”.
The bells started to clang in earnest when the respected Sydney Morning Herald’s weekend supplement devoted an issue to Generation Sex: the Rules of Engagement in the New Age of Raunch, which talked about teenage girls performing oral sex on strangers or pretending to be lesbians to “thrill the guys . . . welcome to the latest sexual revolution where porn is pop, feminism is a dirty word and girls just wanna have fun”.
Fenella Souter, the writer of the cover story, pronounced that “sexiness has become the new political correctness and it has profoundly shaped the way young people see everything from sex and relationships to pornography and personal power”. She wrote about the rise of pole dancing as a mainstream exercise activity (a London friend told me she was horrified to hear that the parents of a schoolfriend of her 16-year-old daughter had consented to lay on pole-dancing as birthday-party entertainment), the popularity of burlesque clubs showcasing (ironic?) “striptease that knows how to laugh at itself” (the New Exhibitionism) and mentioned a recent UK survey of 1,000 girls aged 15 to 19 in which 63 per cent considered their ideal profession to be “glamour model”, posing nude or seminude.
In last year’s wave-making book Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture, American author Ariel Levy asked: “How is resurrecting every stereotype of female sexuality that feminism endeavoured to banish good for women? Why is labouring to look like Pamela Anderson empowering? And how is imitating a stripper or a porn star going to render us sexually liberated?”
When I commented on the “interesting” outfits (think of Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver) of one of the girls in my younger teenage son’s circle, his knowing friend said: “You mean, she looks like a slut.” When I protested (hypocritically) that that wasn’t what I meant, he said: “But you don’t understand: that’s exactly what she wants to look like.”
Teenage girls are a paradox: why is it that while they outstrip boys from primary school to university, they also outdrink the boys (girls are now officially bigger binge drinkers than boys, and their numbers are growing), dress like tarts and apparently behave like them too?
A friend told me that at her daughter’s mixed private school 15-year-old girls are giving fellatio to boys in the loos for a fiver. I heard from two different sources about girls at inner-city comprehensives performing the same act in classrooms. Time and again I hear that despite their academic achievements girls are turned off the idea of emulating their careerist mothers: instead they want nothing more than to be a Wag, or at least marry someone rich enough to support their shopping habit.
What is going on? Is the pornogrification of mainstream culture partly to blame, where even serious actresses such as Nicole Kidman and Maggie Gyllenhaal pose in their underwear for magazine and advertising shoots? A culture in which lad mags such as FHM, recently condemned for publishing a picture of a topless 14-year-old girl without her permission, are apparently sent thousands of similar pictures by girls of themselves every week. A culture in which the website of Bliss magazine (target age 14-17) invited girls to send in photographs of themselves to be marked out of 10 “on looks and pullability”.
Is there some correlation between the misogyny of lads’ magazines (Zoo reported that the singer Courtney Love had “nasty, lumpy breasts” and had “an awful lot of sex” with her “previous owners”) and the fact that boys are doing less well than girls at school? And are girls (who still want to be considered “fit” and fanciable) compensating for outstripping the boys by dressing like strippers and behaving like baby hookers?
As the mother of teenage boys, I felt out of touch with what is going on in the heads of teenage girls and wanted to know what they made of all the contradictory messages in the media. Were they – like Catherine Tate’s bolshy schoolgirl, Lauren Cooper – actually deeply “bovvered”, despite their protestations not to give a damn? Why are self-hating eating disorders on the rise, for instance, affecting girls as young as eight? What effect do scenes of drunk and disorderly girls have on Muslim families at a time when it is imperative that our different communities should be pulling together? Does it push them into being even more conservative where their own daughters are concerned?
It occured to me that Women in Journalism, the campaigning organisation which I was involved in setting up in 1995, might be interested in investigating these issues. Some years ago Ann Treneman (Times parliamentary sketch-writer) legal journalist Fiona Bawdon and I worked together on a WIJ conference exploring the ways in which high-profile women were written about in a completely different way (ie, demeaning and trivialising) from men.
That made a splash, partly because the research was so damning but also because it was relevant to people beyond our own membership. Could a conference on teenage girls have a similar impact? The WIJ committee and chair, Sue Mathias, deputy editor of New Statesman,were immediately persuaded.
Fiona Bawdon was game to do the bulk of the work and immediately started researching. The British Library provided the venue and 100 schoolgirls and boys from around the country to participate in the summit (although the British Library has strict guidelines on what can be discussed on their premises, and sexual practices among teenagers in the presence of a teenage audience is verboten. This was a disappointment, as sex among teenagers was one of the aspects that most “bovvered” me).
During the time that we were planning this campaign, I travelled with Cherie Booth on an assignment in Pakistan and Afghanistan and was impressed by her ability to coax the most recalcitrant women and their daughters into talking about awkward issues. Might she be interested in participating in WIJ’s conference on teenage girls? The answer was a resounding “Yes!” Back in England, Cherie was incredibly supportive behind the scenes and on the day of the conference she was a galvanising moderator, quizzing panelists who included the token “baddie” and only man, Ed Needham (former editor of FHM), comedian Shazia Mirza and – the undisputed star of the event – the teenage actress Nathalie Emmanuel, who plays Sasha in Hollyoaks. Nathalie, who is very beautiful herself, said that she is attracted to people’s personalities more than their looks, and: “I take comfort in knowing that people’s pictures are airbrushed, however beautiful they are,” to applause from the largely teenage audience.
What was striking about the conference was how reluctant the boys were to speak out, even in the more informal context of the break-out groups that took place after the main event. When I was a schoolgirl in the Seventies, at the height of women’s lib, we tended to shut up in the company of boys and let them opine away. What has happened since? If the audience had been stuffed with public school boys, as well as girls, would the gender difference have been so marked? At my sons’ single sex school, for instance, no boy got lower than a B in this year’s GCSEs: does this make them more confident about the value of what they have to say? Is it a class issue as much as a gender issue?
The debate in the panelled part of the conference focused almost exclusively on body image. It had been Cherie’s clever idea to hold the event during London Fashion Week, and this may have had an impact. What hasn’t changed from my time as a teenager is that boys (and men) say they are not attracted to skinny girls as much as to those with curves. Teenage girls, meanwhile, apparently remain convinced that they are never thin enough.
When Cherie managed to winkle out the clam-like boys, they made it clear that they are not fooled by the airbrushing of celebrity women on the covers of magazines and that they are not looking for this sort of fake “perfection” in real girls, let alone lusting after a “size 0” fashion paradigm. Jenny Watson, chair of the Equal Opportunity Commission, implored them to communicate this message to the girls: “Preferably without laughing”.
One of the schoolgirls in the audience made the point that “perhaps boys are more complacent than girls because they know that they will do better in the workplace anyway.” Watson chimed in with the depressing fact that even after 30 years of so-called equality, “for every £1 a man earns in the work place, a woman earns 17 pence less” and encouraged girls to ask their prospective employers whether their company had carried out a gender review: “You must make sure that you get paid the same as the men in the same job.”
In my break-out group on relationships, drugs and alcohol – with students aged 16 to 18 from St Thomas More school in Bedford – the teacher, Munira Sader, head of media studies, got the ball rolling by saying that when she first started at the school five years ago the girls tended to be more serious, but now “it seems to be a badge of honour to bring in photos showing how drunk they were at their parties.”
Both boys and girls commented on how Kate Moss and Amy Winehouse were getting more publicity and kudos from their bad behaviour than they ever did before. One of the girls, Imogen (an aspiring journalist, as it turned out), said she was sickened by the photos of 12-year-olds posting pictures of themselves on social networking websites dressed in their bikinis. A classmate said she was overreacting, since she sometimes sticks similar holiday snaps on the likes of MySpace. One of the boys questioned the research relating to girls outstripping boys academically – and wanted it to be more rigorous, with a breakdown of results at single-sex schools as well as private versus state schools.
Where the girls and boys were unanimous was in their view that the media should be more responsible and focus on more positive role models from their generation: “Why is it that it’s the young people who behave badly who get the most attention?” They were amazed (and thrilled) when the adults pointed out that if they wrote in to complain (and threatened to boycott the publications), they would actually make an impact.
It was the perceived hypocrisy of the press that really seemed to bother them. One made the point that boys who drink and have lots of sex are treated very differently from girls who indulge in the same behaviour.
At the end of this session it was my turn to be thrilled when three girls approached me – Lisa, Imogen and Daniella – and said that, despite all their criticisms of the media, they still wanted to be journalists. What did I think of my profession and could I help?
Their first effort appears on this page today, and they’d better keep to their side of the bargain and produce a school magazine that will put Fleet Street’s efforts to shame. Girl Power, indeed!
— A longer version of this article will appear on the new Women in Journalism website, which is being launched next week.
It’s hard being a teenager
Cherie Booth, who chaired the “Am I Bovvered?” conference, is impressed with teenagers today
It may be unfashionable to say this, but I think the younger generation are great. As a mother of four I know I might be biased, but the more young people I meet, the more I am convinced that our world is in safe hands.
The teenagers who attended the Women in Journalism event - many of whom had travelled hundreds of miles to be there - confirmed my views of our young people. They were passionate, articulate, confident and frequently funny.
But what also came across loud and clear was that they felt it was hard being a modern teenager. While there might be more opportunities than ever, they felt themselves under more pressure to excel - whether it’s how well they do in their exams or how they look.
And as well as talking eloquently about their lives and the pressures they were under, there was consensus, too, at the negative picture of teenagers that the media painted.
They felt that there was too much concentration on the bad rather than the good, and that too few stories actually quoted young people or included their perspectives accurately in the debate. And there was a worrying consensus that the media reinforced unrealistic attitudes to beauty and body shapes.
The summit was primarily about teenage girls but plenty of boys made the effort to attend and express their views as well. The young women talked about the pressure they feel to diet and look good; others, including young men, called for more honesty from the press, and an end to passing off airbrushed images as reality.
One girl told the conference that she’d spent the summer on endless diets to look good on the beach and had ended up losing lots of weight but feeling dreadful. She wanted more coverage aimed at teens about good nutrition, rather than just shedding calories.
The teens said they often felt stigmatised and misrepresented by the media. But as one summit speaker pointed out, the new media gives today’s teenagers huge power to set the terms of debate themselves. It’s an opportunity that I am sure they will increasingly take. As last week’s summit showed, if you give young people the chance, they have a lot to say that’s worth hearing.
— CHERIE BOOTH
All those years of feminism, and girls still expect to be judged on their looks
Girls are now bigger binge drinkers than boys and get drunk more often.
They seem to be becoming more sexually assertive, too – behaviour also more usually associated with young males.
On the websites of magazines aimed at teenage girls, readers as young as 13 are posting pictures of their “buff boyfriends”. Readers are invited to “feast their eyes” over galleries of “lush lads”, many of whom are posing shirtless.
Readers are asked to vote on whether the teen boys displayed are “Hot lads or mingers?”; “Sexy, or sling him?” On the website for Sugar magazine, 13-year-old Jordan poses, still wearing his school tie but with his shirt undone to expose his torso.
Chloe explains that she sent his picture: “cuz es sxc a gr8 [trans: because he’s sexy, a great] boyfriend has a great body . . .” But while girls are increasingly matching (or surpassing) teenage boys drink for drink, and drooling over pictures of the opposite sex with their clothing askew, talk of widespread “gender-blurring” seems to be exaggerated.
Yes, young girls are adopting some behaviour typically seen as “male”, but that doesn’t mean that they’ve left behind behaviour typically seen as “female”, such as worrying about their appearance. Far from it.
Teenage girls at the Women in Journalism summit complained of feeling under intense pressure to match the unrealistic images of beauty shown in the media. And it seems that they are not alone.
In one study of 3,000 young women, half of those aged 16 to 25, and a quarter of the 10 to 15-year-olds said the media makes them feel that “being pretty and thin” is the most important thing for a girl. Worryingly, it seems that rather than gaining in confidence with age, the older girls feel this pressure more strongly.
Girls are far more critical of their bodies than boys. In this spirit, Bliss magazine had on its website a survey asking its readers (girls aged 14 to 17) to rate ten different bits of their own bodies (boobs, bums, tummy, thighs . . .), with the options being “Happy”, “Unhappy” or “Hate ’em”. They are asked to rate their overall looks, ranging from “Beautiful” to “Ewwww”. It’s hard to imagine a publication aimed at boys running such a survey – or, indeed, any boy filling it in.
Again, no doubt because they expect to be judged on looks, girls are more likely than boys to post pictures of themselves and their friends on social networking sites such as MySpace.
Girls feel equally disrespected by both boys their age and politicians. Nearly three-quarters of 16 to 25-year-olds say they aren’t treated with respect by the media or the fashion industry, either – which doesn’t stop their being highly influenced by both. Many teenage girls are keen to work in exactly the industries they criticise: 14 per cent of 16 to 25-year-olds want to be TV presenters; more than a third of 10 to 14-year-olds want to be models.
Young women narrow – rather than expand – their aspirations as they get older. Doing well in a career becomes relatively less important and getting married becomes relatively more important as girls get older. Success at work is “very important” to 75 per cent of 10 to 15-year olds, but to only 60 per cent of those who are actually about to embark on a career, the 16 to 25-year-olds.
Similarly, doing well at school or university becomes less important with age.
Although girls are slightly less likely than boys of the same age to be overweight, they are much more likely to be unhappy with their weight.
Nearly half of 15-year-old girls think they’re too fat and a quarter of them will be dieting.
Up to 90 per cent of those suffering with eating disorders are girls – and sufferers are getting younger. The most common age for sufferers is 14-25 but eating disorders have been diagnosed in girls as young as 8. Experts say that one reason for this is that young girls are reaching puberty younger, and starving themselves is one way of trying to stop themselves being viewed sexually. They also say that the younger the sufferer, the more likely it is that their long-term health will be damaged, because their bodies are still developing.
— FIONA BAWDON
We must speak up now
Lisa Caruso, Imogen Betts and Daniella Catanzaro, pupils at St Thomas Moore School, Bedford, are “bovvered” and prepared to make a stand
Did you know . . . not all teenagers are “yobs” and “wannabe WAGs”?
We do have a voice, it’s just ignored. At least that’s what we thought, until we attended the conference at the British Library, and realised that perceptions can be changed.
The conference, titled “Am I bovvered? – what are teenage girls really thinking?”, got us thinking . . .what do they know? They’re not teenagers! Now riled by the title, expecting a boring day of lectures (YAWN), being told about teenage girls’ place in the media and how we are affected by it, we braced ourselves for a patronising experience at the hands of “Women in journalism”. We expected the usual “media talk” . . . women are exploited, that’s the reality of life, it sells - accept it – BLAH BLAH BLAH!
What we got turned out to be an inspiring and thought-provoking day. Within the space of a debate, our whole world turned upside down . . . we realised that we, teenagers, do have a voice. Huh?
Yeah, that’s right! We do have the power to change things.
We were thrown into an open-floor debate (a what, some of us asked). Added to that experience was the celebrity-like nature of the panel; ranging from Cherie Booth to Nathalie Emmanuel (WOW, Sasha from Hollyoaks). The set-up and the chance to challenge the professionals, while gaining answers to our long-awaited questions, was almost surreal. It was, for once, nice to be on the same playing field as the professionals, not as stupid teenagers but as people with valid opinions. Armed with relevant, valid, life-altering questions, or so we thought, we prepared to grill the panel. This was made up of mostly women, the only man there being the former editor of FHM magazine.
Never mind, we thought, he’ll do. He can answer all the burning questions about the exploitation of women in men’s mags.
Boy, were we doomed to disappointment. He seemed to epitomise the latest media trend . . . Dodge the question! Shockingly, as informative and pro-women’s rights as the panel was, there were key areas where the women themselves dodged the question, especially when it came to editorial responsibility for images published in some magazines.
It was interesting to see that the boys in the audience were on our side! Although they didn’t say that until after we had left the venue. Helpful . . . NOT! But typical.
They weren’t shouting FHM’s praises . . . they don’t want everyone to be a size-zero supermodel, Oh, the comfort this gave many of us girls. Imagine what would happen to the size-zero debate if more boys made their voices heard.
There’s a challenge! Among the blurred discussions, all the journalists, and Cherie Booth, surprisingly proved to be approachable, and not the fire-breathing dragons we were expecting. I wonder where we got that from – the media, perhaps? Dove’s underappreciated campaign also caught our attention. The realisation hit us that what Dove was actually doing by allowing “normal” women to model for them was changing the way we view the industry. Taking the proverbial “one small step for woman, one giant step for womankind”.
It’s more companies like this that we need! Entering the conference, we weren’t expecting to enjoy, participate or be heard. Glad to say we were wrong. We did all three, and then some.
We realised that if we dislike something, we (all of us) should speak up. Then they’ll have no choice but to change it.
Now is the time to rebel and oppose what you think is wrong in the media. Now is the time to alter the current perception; and there are people on our side. So that is exactly what we are planning to do. If we want anything to change, we need to begin by making a difference.
We have decided to put together our own version of what we think a magazine should look like. One that defies the regular conventions.
Finally, no more bimbo cover girls. Instead a role model on the cover, one that we can look up to; who has achieved something worthwhile in her life beyond being “fit”.
Our aim is to create a magazine that has purpose, and can inspire girls to strive, have ambition and reach their potential; to show girls that there’s more to life than “getting” with a boy, looking fit and sleeping around. A magazine that can talk about things that matter! Next time you go out and buy a magazine, STOP . . . remember the impact you could have by not buying it! If you do buy it, then remember. See something you don’t like – do something about it. TODAY!!! P.S. Keep an eye out for our Girl Power magazine. Who knows?
— LC, IB, DC
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Like just about any problem considered to be a social one, the remedy is almost always about personal responsibility. I implore women and girls to make the stand and be active in campaigning against anything that is damaging to their perception. I congratulate those who already are but I feel that it is no longer fair to lump blame on the men, as your young journalists seem to do.
Perhaps it's just me and the men who I talk to about this with but we generally don't understand modern female fashion. A lot of new trends we just don't get and we often feel confused as to why women wear things like skirts the size of belts. The clothing that's designed to be 'sexy' is only sexy in an obvious or raw kind way but in no way represents what men really want. Men want classy women and this is something that the editors (and readers) of Nuts and Zoo will tell you. I like intelligent, charming and creative women who save their sexiness for me!
(I wish I had more space to elaborate!)
Steve G, London,
Was a great convention, glad I brought up the subject of airbrusjing and use of social networking sites, really got a debate going.
Still loving the fact that I got owned by Cherie Blair
=D!
Gavin Critchley, Astley, Manchester, England
Has anyone noticed that the majority of school teachers and doctors graduating in this day and age are women. That in 20 years time most of the male dominant positions will be occupied by women. That most single parents are female. How many of the photographers taking the photos for the "lads mags" are actually female, for example, alot of Jordans shoots were done by a female photographer. I am not looking to anger anyone but do you think that equality dosnt exist within the age range of 20 - 30. I only mention this group as i am between that age and know that my female friends and colleagues are all on an equal level to me. Maybe in the eyes of men i am actually under performing! With the greatest interest in this age old debate i look forward to reading more of your comments.
Chris , Belfast ,
this is the logical end of the feminist revolution. When we started having schools teaching girls cricket and then women's football and rugby teams for heaven's sake, it was obvious things had gone too far. Some women are not satisfied with being equal to men,
which is quite sensible, they now want to BE men. When I was young women were rarely seen at football matches, now they are there screaming and yelling with the men. Women are actually losing their femininity and dignity with this sort of behaviour
billcarr, turku, finland
With programmes like Ally McBeal, Sex and the City and Footballer's Wives, promoting liberated female sexuality, is it any wonder that teenage girls want to emulate their older counterparts?
Why is it okay to promote the female form and female sexuality as sensual and beautiful things to be celebrated but it's not okay when it's done in a lad's mag?
Is it any wonder that there's some confusion?
J Smith, Brighton, UK
Sally age 21, you say: '...very little point of having high career aspirations.'
That's exactly the kind of stuff we were fed in the mid-20th century. 'It doesn't matter how she does at school, she'll only get married...' Well, many of us did get married, many of us had careers too! There's a thing called 'need for achievement' and some have it to a greater extent than others. We feel a lifelong need to challenge ourselves - GCSE Maths most recently.
Some of us struggled for the kind of opportunities you dismiss as 'no particular need to excel'. I struggled for my daughter to have the right to do 'boys' subjects' at school because she had decided to be an engineer.
L, I and D, good for you! I'll buy a copy of your magazine and send one to my granddaughters (19 and 26) and my step-granddaughters (13 and 11).
One of the things I fought for was women's independent taxation which came in 1990. It was humiliating having the tax office write to my husband about MY taxable income!
Margaret Stoll, Rochford, Essex, England
For so long we have been telling woman they can have it all, the great job, the big family, the nice house, the nice car, and if your husband doesn't like it, give him the heave-ho and milk him for every penny. So our young teenage girls are now thinking great i'll have all this, but i'll have a good time first before i'm tied down to all that's expected from me. Is Cherie Booth QC serious when she thinks our country is in safe hand with this generation - This generation who thinks common sense is a place in london where political figures are caught with the morals around there ankles.
A generation who will show no remorse when the country collapses around them because of the 'live for today' culture, and what will they say ' am i bovvered!'
Karen Hollowell , Northampton , UK
I'm not so sure it is men to create the image these girls are trying to live up to - go look through an issue of Playboy, FHM, or even GQ. Quite a few of the women are pretty curvy. Now go look through an issue of Vogue, Allure, or Cosmopolitan - you'll find extremely skinny women. Skinny women look better in clothes so I think you get a lot of skinny models, but without the clothes, women with some curves, and not necessarily muscular curves, look best. Didn't someone once say, men want a skinny bird on their arm and a chubby one in bed?
Michael, Kansas City, USA
Why is it when you do surveys of this kind you only have teenagers from certain types of schools, you will never get a proper picture. Unfortunately, there are girls who will never however long you keep them at school achieve high pass marks in their exams, as our government have taken away any hope that these girls have to start at the bottom of a company and work their way up, so why do you think they turn to magazines promoting looking good and earning loads of money. I have no qualifications and started as a junior and worked up to PA, I know loads of people like me, which no one in the media will promote because it is not cool to do apprenticeships anymore. Show realistic role models stop asking girls to achieve far more than they ever will be able to. Stop this promotion of being famous for being on a reality show start promoting the work ethic again and may be more girls will find themselves. Too much pressure and no self worh is all teenage girls get from the media!
Maggie Clay, Ashford,
I have just finished university and have just got my first real job in a law firm and although I value my intelligence and my degree, I also understand the pressure to look good all the time. The press constantly place pictures of "hot, young, celebs" and even more of WAGS - so called role models. With these images constantly put in our face it is hardly surprising that young girls are dieting and aiming for a "get rich quick career" such as a WAG.
There need to be more "real women" placed on the front cover of magazines who have real aims, beliefs and real bodies for women to look up to.
Melissa, Southampton ,
This is exactly what feminism wanted, for women to be 'liberated' and for the family to be demolished.
What is clear is that generally speaking it is fathers who teach their sons to respect women, not mothers.
And it is fathers, not mothers, who protect their daughters from being used and abused by horny young lads.
Yet fathers are now considered optional in families, or even harfmul, hence anti-male bias in the divorce courts that reward women for kicking hubby out (but keeping his assets) and denying him access to his kids on a whim. Or the way single women can now get IVF; no dad required.
In the old days (the 'evil patriarchy', as feminists called it) the man was the head of the house, and if he didn't want his little girl going out dressed like a slut, then he wouldn't let her. His say was final. Nowadays, daddy probably won't be around, so if a girl wants to go out dressed like a slut, her single mother will probably be dressed like a slut and going out with her.
Edward, Leeds,
I believe this issue is about respect:
I am a 23 yr old male, and i ask myself, 'who do i respect, in the public eye?' and i find it hard to answer. I respect those men and women who volunteer to put their lives on their line for our country, i do not respect the politicians who send them out to die for slogans and shady deals.
I respect great actors, scientists, authors and film directors like Judi Dench and Ian McKellen, David Attenborough and Patrick Moore, Anne McCaffery and John Ringo, Hayao Miyazaki and Guillermo Del Toro.
I do not respect glamour models, nor do i particularly desire them; whilst they're trading on the idiocy of men, they also somewhat encourage (not that that's necessary) that stupidity. I do not respect WAGs, for how have they earned their fortune? Nor footballers, since why do they deserve theirs? Is this the age of the dilettante, the end of earned prestige? I hope not, but it seems that substance always loses out to style, especially scantily clad style
Nick Worthy, Manchester, UK
Inspiring! i was so delighted to read this article it has given me back my faith in journalism. As a teacher i am constantly impressed by the intelligence and insight of the teenagers i teach they are a fantatstic bunch, yet they are often portrayed in a bad light. It is the views expressed in the article that made me so heartened i felt i was finally understood. this article states my own concerns, hopes and fears for this geneeraction ofwomen, knowing their are like minded people about is wonderful. It is an odd coincidence that i hadthought of starting a magazine aimed at teenage girls anddistrubtedin schools but was not sure how to go about staring out- it seems these brught young ladies have beaten me too it - good luck to them !
lorien joyce, totnes, England
I really find it funny how many of today's top selling female performers usually put out at least one song during their carreers advicing girls to be comfortable with themselves while the remaining 99.99% of their catalogue and 200% of their attitude just says the opposite. Remember that Cristina Aguilera song? What about the other one by the Sugarbabes? I don't remember the songs, but what I remember thinking is "wtf? Isn't this the same girl/group that was/were showing-off, half naked, in countless sultry videos I don't either remember? Haven't they all gone through surgery to try to enhance their good looks or get some? What do they dress up like when they attend public shows?". I don't have a problem with good looking girls, but it's this hypocrisy that gets me... just as with newspapers and the media in general. Who do they pay attention to? Shape over substance all the time, and then, sociological analysis articles, as if they'd done nothing to spread the fads they much critizice
Damn, kandahar,
What a terrible shame that teenage girls appear to dress to advertise their sexual availablilityt o gain acceptance (in part from boys, and also their female peers) and it all backfires on them. They think that binge drinking and indiscriminate sex will win friends, and are disappointed when the boys they hope will accept them disrespect them. Who sold them the awful lie that pole dancing is about liberation and that acting like the worst sort of man makes them equal? They don't have the experience to know that the people who hold feminism up as an awful warning do so in order to expoit them. Equality is earning your own money, having your own career and your own house - only then can they be free. We need to tell them.
Pauline Bird, Kingston upon Thames, Surrey
The cynical, self- serving exploitative mass media have promoted the lowest common denominators (sex, sensationalism, morbid curiosity) and preyed on insecurities (peer pressure, attractiveness to the opposite sex) with the end result that there are few social boundaries intact. Teenagers are told they can be 'grown ups' and adults are given permission to remain children, and anyone who says otherwise is uncool/ boring/ authoritarian. Teenage girls are not emotionally developed enough to draw a distinction between positive and negative attention or indeed the fantasy world of 'celebrities' and their own realities. The message that they are constantly bombarded with is: 'you can have it all if you're pretty and popular and use your sexuality/ attractiveness'. Unfortunately, so long as there are adults who will sell records by pole dancing and pouting suggestively, buy magazines about celebrity cellulite and sell Little Miss Naughty bras and pants to children this situation will continue
Dan, Oxford, England
Boys prefer the prettier girls. Who would have thought it?
In the old days virginity mattered. Except in Asian communities, that has now gone by the board, so it's all on appearance. Even in the job market, it is the rare employer that is looking for technical rather than "soft" skills in female employees. For "interpersonal skills" read "appearance".
Malcolm McLean, Bradford, UK
I agree with Will from Bath .. as a 26 year-old man a lot of girls from my generation behave in this slutty manner and, yes, they are easy to pick up and dispose of, which is a shame in one respect. But, you have to consider that a lot of these girls do it because they're young and they want to have fun. But, at what cost?
I still have trouble dealing with my girlfriend's sexual history and we've been together for quite some time now - it's never nice to think that the one you love could do some of the things she's confessed to, but when you're in love you have to overcome these things, which I'm still working at. Sadly, for a guy my age it's very difficult to find a girl who hasn't slept with less than 10/15 guys by the age of 20 - believe me, I've been searching for a long time. I don't understand why many of these girls have so little self-respect and no ambition to do anything but take their clothes off or be used for sex.
I guess it's just indicative of today's youth.
MB, London,
It is true that these days young men are being comprehensively out-drunk and out-sexed by their female counterparts. It seems the end result of feminist liberalism has become girls snogging each other to ingratiate themselves to mobs of baying lads.
This is what 'liberation' is to girls nowadays - the concept, it seems, has been moulded to equivalence with male values - sexual promiscuity and binge-drinking.
Perhaps, given the novelty of sexual equity (- unattempted in the entire history of human civilisation until less than a hundred years ago), this is the natural and inevitable result. What exactly did you expect?
Jacob A., London,
As a mother to a 4 year old daughter and step-mother to a 12-year old girl I am already wondering how on earth I help them defend themselves against the pressure they are likely to be placed under to "blend in" with their peers. I'm horrified at some of the barely there school uniforms I see walking through my home town. WHY do girls want to look like this?!
In my school girls who were overtly sexy or had "done things" with boys were certainly not seen as role models. Yes, we all liked to be fashionable and yes, we were all body conscious, but our magazines then were gentler, supportive and funny - not the distasteful soft-porn rubbish I see now.
If anybody can give me some advice on how to develop my girls' self-esteem, so they don't need to dress-up and act-out, I'd be so grateful!
kitty, Manchester, England
I think most women will agree that by the time the hit their twenties, for better or worse they are very different people than they were in their early to mid teens.
Have faith that those who behave like "sluts" will see the folly of their ways soon enough.
Scott Millson, Toronto, Canada
It’s evolution! In the ever more competitive world of attracting attention the limit is pushed. In personal life (clothing, pricings, tattoos, etc.) and in media (more and more outrageous headlines, stories and pictures).
On top of this the advertising industry has everybody convinced that sexy dressing is a must for anyone girl that wants to be desired or successful.
Finally the parents have totally neglected their responsibilities as parents and given up.
Is obesity playing a part as well? As a girl gets more obese she (in the general view) becomes less desirable. Is slutty dressing a way of compensating?
M Fleming, London,
Our perceptions of what is acceptable has changed and become an mostly 'anything is allowed policy' as long it sells the product. From posters on buses to adverts on telly, women seem to be only depected in underwear or nearly naked. It may sound boring and old fashioned but while this trend continues and our children grow up with all this around them, accepting it as normal, girls who grow up in this atmosphere will get confused about their bodies, they will not value their brains and strive to be size '0'
We must fight and get rid of this anything goes culture NOW
Belinda, London,
Hate to tell you, but all the true feminists lived in London and they were so busy getting on with important things ( like campaigning for social equaltiy, burning their bras etc. ) that they never had any daughters. We provincials may never have been exposed in the same manner.
James, Sunderland,
Was quite moved by the 3 teenage girls' article - but also slightly shocked that 20 years ago, when I was their age, my contemporaries were so much more politicised and, if you like, liberated, bolshy and aware at an early age than seems to be the case in the noughties. Typical ambitions then were to be journalists, teachers, doctors, etc, WAGs were unheard of and modelling (any type of modelling, let alone the "glamour" variety) was not on anyone's horizon. I am amazed that this particular wheel - self-respect, ambition etc - needs reinventing at a time when information is so easy to access - teenagers nowadays have access to the WWW, computers, mobile phones, email - all of them things that the eighties did not offer. As Jodie Foster said in "Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore": Weird!
Zed, Oxford, UK
I think the one way to let this fad, and that's all it is, pass is to let kids get on with it. The 'pressure' from magazines and celebrities is inflicted be the victim. A girl pays as much attention to these magazines as she chooses, try engaging one in conversation instead. As for the slut culture, it will pass. Eventually everyone wakes up from a hard weekends drinking and realises there is no need to carry on. When in the 60's kids fell off rooves and play areas, these days they get their stomach pumped. People never change, just the actions. The magazines requesting photos and opinions are another social notch in a belt: "My boyfriend got 10/10" etc. No kid actually takes them seriously. It's amusing to put an ex-partner in for a vote. The problem is in the eye of the beholder. I agree there are issues among the young that need addressing, such as violence, drinking and drugs. Self respect is something that comes by itself to an individual.
John Davies, Worcester,
As a young, career woman, with an independent almost "feminist" streak, if you will, I must be all over this article. The point of the article is all over the place. I must also point out that to some degree we must separate the fashion industry from the "media" that showers attention on hot topics such as eating disorders, drunken teen behavior and the like. This media puts this behavior in the spotlight. The fashion industry to a great degree is a form of art. I am bored at this point of people who forget this distinction. Clothes look fabulous on hangers. A designer, wishes to showcase his/her art on a canvas, if you will, that will maximize effect...a thin model with a symetrical, not necessarily distinctive or memorable face, is a typical choice. I think focusing on developing confidence to realize this and to move forward is essential to a woman's success in the career world. Women need to get over themselves. Move on. Move Foward.
Mia, Boston, MA, USA
Attraction plays a huge role in society and most of it is subconscious. Appearance is as arbitrary as language and in some ways performs in the same way as language - just as much as how a person speaks, the language they use, the dialect (am I bvvered) , image forms it's own message. We judge people and create our own reformed images of people based on not just aesthetic qualities as hair style or clothes brand, but on how they come across as a person. Unfortunately in British society today we have girls who understand their only identity to be this glam-fad culture of breasts, plastic and trend. It's "fake" because it doesn't represent individual style and herein lies a central factor in this behaviour.
Real beauty is reflected in individuality; individuality takes courage and confidence, rooted in that lies emotional stability. With the current family demographic in UK, hardly surprisingthese girls can but follow 'trend' and public opinion .
I am just 20 and I see this.
victoria , London ,
It is a very serious misconception for women to imagine they can make themselves much more attractive to men simply by behaving in a sexually aggressive manner. It does not matter how confident and arrogant we pretend to be, deep down inside, we men are always scared of women with plenty of boyfriends because we all feel very insecure when compared with our rivals in love especially performance in bed. The fact of the matter is women do themselves a disservice by appearing to be too 'liberal'. After all who wants to get married to a woman with plenty of boyfriends to go back to when the marriage hits the rock?
Wing, Poole, UK
"What ever happened to the British gentleman an the British lady that the world looked up to, respected and admired?". Simple; it never existed. It is time to realize that the so-called British gentleman and lady has always been a minority. I cannot think of any country that admired the so-called British gentleman and lady. Simple as that.
Mark, Coventry, UK
What's sad is that those young women focused so much on their appearance that they forgot to develop an interesting personality.
And the only thing a empty-headed nympho will ever get is sex, respect is for women of substance who respect themselves.
Tom, London,
Jenny - "...except that they are not equal wrongs, because the history of gender inequality has ensured that when girls behave as badly as boys, they are judged and treated much more harshly. "
But the wrongs are equal Jenny, it's the attitudes to those wrongs which is not.
For my part I can say that I treat such behaviour with an unpartisan not-bovvered shrug.
RJ, Jersey, CI,
Its strange this after I read the article in the magazine I actually thought about Nuts and Zoo magazine. I always think that the girls in them Louise Cliffe, Sophie Howard etc. must be getting well paid and enjoy it because what would be the point. Also whenever they have in these magazines first timers and girls send their pictures in they have their name age and their JOB. I think well it must be a good little earner modelling then and again on top of what you do because what annoys me more then Nuts and Zoo is women 'celebrities' appearing in mags such as OK and Hello who don't actually work. I'm always asking "What do you do?"
T Hughes, Tilly,
Great artice Fiona Bawden, you are quite right, the media do not respect girls and women.
You will find though is that most men and boys will not treat you so disrespectfully for wanting to be good looking, funny and successful in your career. This is pretty much what most boys want for themselves remember that the media can do them a disservice too.
Girls and boys, you have exciting, challening lives ahead of you and you don't have "to be" anything. Don't let the media tell you otherwise.
jane, london, uk
it's an identity crisis that no-one is strong enough to address or conquer, it's sad but indicative of what of modern day society has become. I find it disheartening that a male can relate more to feminism than a teenage girl... changes happen naturally and the best that well-meaning feminists and men (you can't surely suggest men can be feminists) can hope for is a natural shift of societal expectations. The role of the media in this is being used as a scapegoat. Last time i checked we all had freedom of thought in the UK?
Mat, Liverpool,
I would like to address 'Dominic London's comment. I believe that teenage image is an essential issue, not all teenagers are the yobs you are describing. They are a very small minority and the issue of image has an effect on all teenagers. I would pride myself on the fact that through my teenage years (only just ended) I had excellent manners and respect for my elders but had no self confidence whatsoever. Of course my parents, who I might add were not the slightest bit lazy but very hard working and did the best they could raising me, tried to install in me a sense of respect for myself. But even with this it is impossible to ignore the onslaught of diet tips, size zero models and articles on how to get the perfect body that we are forcefed by the media.
As for the actual article it does seem hopeful that there are girls who want to make a difference. However, short of reprogramming the minds of the entire population or doing away with the media, I can't see this happening.
Charlotte, London,
How ironic that FHM is repeatedly mentioned in this article, while Vogue doesn't feature at all. And how might one expect boys to respond to a discussion which perpetuates the dreary shibboleth that male sexuality is dirty. I would expect silence.
It is laughable to argue that women and girls are so disempowered by men in this day and age that they must dress provocatively. Women aren't nearly as disempowerd as they used to be, and besides, the logic doesn't follow.
The truth is that it is yet another standard imposed by women upon themselves. It has nothing to do with boys or men, and boys and men understand this very well. So what do you expect them to say?
Tim, Auckland, New Zealand
Good to see these issues coming into the open - but it doesn't seem to give answers. It's all very well for the people who've made the effort to turn up to the debate - mainly people who are 'bovvered' - to say that the media image of teenage girls is skewed.
Next time, try to make the debate compulsory, working with the schools. Make girls lose their EMA for not attending. Because the ones who dress provocatively and portray themselves as objects of sex who really need to hear all this, who really need to discover a greater self worth and intrinsic value.
Meg, Pembs,
Just a small point - no boy at your son's private school got less than a 'B' at GCSE for the simple reason that no boy who is unintelligent or not well supported by affluent parents would be allowed to go there. Schools in the ordinary universe that the rest of us patronise, are not so able to decline the intellectually and culturally challenged.
Tony Volpe, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
Teenage image should not even be an issue, and it is only people who want to avoid the real issues that are willing to deal with this tripe. What is body-image beside the problem that modern teens have no respect for their elders, or the basic manners that have been the glue for society. Catch public transport anywhere in the country and you will be disgusted with the behaviour of these children.
But of course it is not their fault, but that of parents who are lazy, and cannot seem to understand the value of the word 'no'. If teens were taught respect for themselves and those around them, issues of sex, and image become much more simple.
The ultimate irony, is that it is the same callow parents who teach their children no respect, that complain when they are made to stand on a bus or robbed on the street.
Dominic, London,
I think the article raises some valid points but I think it's wrong to buy into the myth of sexually provocative clothes=failure of women to acheive. I am a graduate, and now dress quite conservatively, but I used to wear short skirts and fishnet tights at university. When I was a kid I was impressed by Debbie Harry, who used to wear very revealing clothes. I saw Siouxsie Sioux in concert at 17, she was wearing boots and a leather mini (might have been shorts). I remember being impressed. I also respect the burlesque work of Dita Von Teese. Read any interview with these women and you'll see that they are intelligent, creative people. Dress how you want, ignore old fashioned "blue stocking" feminists who think dressing in a certain way defines your intellect. Oh, and Sally from Newcastle, wake up and smell the coffee. You work from 21 to at least 65. Exactly how much of this time can you spend raising kids?
Rebecca Billings, Richmond, UK
Could it be that girls are reacting to a world in which women such as Jordan, Kate Moss, Jade Goody and the wives and girlfriends of footballers are lauded and turned into celebrities for reasons most of us find difficult to comprehend?
I cannot seriously believe that anyone thinks Ellen MacArthur is anything other than a beautiful talented and sexy woman who happens to have brains and bravery in equal measure. Kate Moss or Ellen? I'd take Ellen every time.
But of course Ellen has had to work hard and risked life and limb for her good fortune. Jordan and the others publish books and launch all kinds of other products which are snapped up in their thousands. A certain section of the public see that and opt for the easier route. It's basic human nature we're talking about. It's no mystery.
Paul Owen, Birmingham, Uk
One thing is for sure... the pressure on young women to look and act like this doesn't come from men. Most of us like 'feminine' traits in our partners.
Alex McGregor, Plymouth, UK
Typically of most women, the author doesn't realise that boys find other, more interesting things to do at school than learn, unlike girls. No wonder that the rule-breakers grow up to become high-earners in professional life, whereas the others - mostly girls - get to do only mechanical work in the office. Just like in school.
And indeed, what's wrong with putting family life before a professional career?
G, Vilnius,
I feel it's obvious why some young girls aspire to be glamour models and WAGs etc, do you have any idea how hard you have to work to get a decent career in the UK these days? It's ok if you were born with a sliver spoon in your mouth and mummy and daddy will support you while you do the endless months of "work experience" or working for nothing that it takes to succeed in so many professions these days, and journalism must be the worst culprit for this!!! believe me, i know. I don't blame girls who aspire to be glamour models who can blame them, because you will find it's ususally those that are never going to be able to afford to go to university or anything else that it otherwise takes to make some money.
L, London,
I am 21 years old and I would say as far as the career side of things go I personally feel that there is no particular need to excel as one day I hope to have children that I will raise, not a nanny. Therefore, there seems very little point of having high career aspirations.
As far as the attitude towards sex, which does appear worse now than when I was in school, I would suggest that a possible contributing factor is that because men/boys can get away with being sexually promiscuous then a teenage girl is likely to see it as her right to do the same thing and that it is something to be congratulated.
The media has played a part in women's body image since magazines became popular. Not only magazines aimed at teenagers but those aimed at women seem to have, as standard, at least one article on how to lose weight quickly or how to be more attactive. Then you have magazines like 'Heat' where no one can win. Women the same size are too skinny on one page and too fat on the next!!
Sally, Newcastle upon Tyne,, England
As a young single male I see examples of this depressing behaviour everywhere and until recently I dismissed it as a by product of feminism - women are now allowed to show that they like sex - and as part of lip-stick feminism - women can dress in a sexy manner without having to give up their right to be taken seriously. Now I'm not so sure. Whilst I do think a woman should be able to look good and be taken seriously (the idea that she should dress like a man to play the same game as a man seems anathema to feminism to me) and that she should be allowed enjoy sex (I know a lot of women who would argue until death for their right to enjoy sex purely for their own pleasure) I do think we've maybe gone too far. I think the media are unfairly blamed a lot of the time in this argument but there is a myth that men demand women who are sexually liberal and dress provocatively and until both genders stop allowing this myth to perpetuate we'll still see these disturbing images everywhere.
Will, Brighton,
Those commentators asking why parents dress girls in 'inappropriate' clothes, should try finding children's clothing on the high street that is not pink for girls, or sludge-coloured "mini-thug" in style for boys. Even baby-gros are sex-coded with 'cute' slogansfor girls in the inane and prettified line, whilst those for boys read 'little monster or trouble. The forcing of children into inappropriate sex roles starts long before the teenage years.
Catherine, Oxford,
One factor that works against women, is that they find status attractive in men. Men, on the whole, do not do this.
This leads to the mentality that women are, in some way, subordinate to men and must behave in the way that men would choose, or copy mens behaviour to seek their approval.
Of course this only occurs with women who are looking for men to find them attractive and there are indeed exceptions, but largely this is true. Many women who go out on a night are looking to appeal sexually to alpha male types.
J, London,
what girls do not seem to realise is that most boys are scared witless about actually being in a relationship with a 'teenage slut', as emanated in magazines such as Zoo. Unfortunately the bravado which goes with having an encounter with such a 'teenage slut', as emanated in magazines such as Zoo, means that any such relationship is going to be brief. Girls are basically misguided by the media that boys actually want what they fantasise about. Unfortunately, a fantasy is probably all they want it to be.
Nymphomaniac sex kittens are great on paper, but less so in real life
simon mawdsley, london,
"Why do young girls seem to be asked to swing between... Super-Chavette on the lash/pull or Super-Feminist raging against the evil patriarchy. Can't they be left alone to be what they want to be? Ah that'd be a challenge"
If you are managing to live in a world without external influences, then you're clearly not living on this planet. No-one, regardless of sex, is left alone by society and its cultures. We have a responsibility to ourselves and each other to ensure that the influences are positive.
"You wanted 'equal rights', you got them. Unfortunately the downside is that they come hand-in-hand with 'equal wrongs.'"
...except that they are not equal wrongs, because the history of gender inequality has ensured that when girls behave as badly as boys, they are judged and treated much more harshly.
Personally, I took heart from this article. Thank goodness there are young women out there who still have an understanding of what real equality and liberation actually is.
Jenny, Leeds, UK
Interesting that the girls who contributed feel that the pressure on girls to be ultra-sexy comes from wanting to please the boys. Unfortunately, girls know that there is a formula for attracting male attention. A short skirt, slim waist and good make-up will always help, at least in the short run. Personality can win through, but it is a longer game. Even if such things are not necessary - anyone who has been a teenage boy knows that they gave a girl an immense advantage.
Perhaps the reason why boys are less susciptible to this pressure is that (other than rugby playing skill) there is no simple formula for attracting the attention of girls.
Dennis, London,
It's so sad to hear of young girls who feel they have to dress and act like whores to be acceptable -- and great to hear of teenagers who are fighting the trend and standing up for themselves and their generation. But why the tone of sadness in which Fiona Bawdon says "Doing well in a career becomes relatively less important and getting married becomes relatively more important as girls get older"? There is nothing wrong with wishing to get married, and perhaps start a family. As someone once said, when did you last hear of anyone (male or female) saying on their deathbed "I wish I'd spent more time at the office"?
Ruth, Milton Keynes,
There are many strands to this argument; some people take issue with the perceived increase in promiscuity and yobbish behaviour, and others take issue mainly with many women not getting the recognition they deserve and sometimes underachieving in their careers. These are all separate issues, not necessarily all feeding off or into the same problems. In terms of some girls and women’s bad behaviour, it is mostly caused by how many elements of the media glamorize the idea that being aggressive, rude and domineering is the only way to achieve anything. People should not just lap up whatever they see in the media, but the fact that so many people do leaves us in the predicament we are in now.
Karl Chads, London, UK
Isn't being a glamour model rather 80s?
Chris, Birmingham,
Watch the red carpet and see how many supposed to be role models try to look like a lady on the outside. Then read some of the press or watch them on interview and its easy to see that they are not ladies on the inside. It's hard these days to identify a lady, from a woman, a girl or a lady of the night. Fashion, ok, but come on let some have a childhood first. Then time to be teenagers and move towards womanhood in a positive, and confident environment.
Mark Harris, Swansea, Wales
Very encouraging to read of a younger generation not yet dumbed down by the MTV propaganda of America and the sensationlist tripe of the tabloids and penny-dreadful magazines.
It is wholly indicative of a general decline in Western society where men behave like peasant yobs and women behave worse than some nation's actual hookers.
What ever happened to the British gentleman an the British lady that the world looked up to, respected and admired?
The sad fact is that, as father of two adult boys (and one daughter) I know boys treat these girls as mere disposable conquests/playthings before settling down with a 'nice girl' for marriage.
Will, Bath, UK
Why do young girls seem to be asked to swing between these extremes of either Super-Chavette on the lash/pull or Super-Feminist raging against the evil patriarchy. Can't they be left alone to be what they want to be? Ah that'd be a challenge.
James O'Brien, Singapore, Singapore
"As women become more desperate for men's love and approval, the more sexually and behaviorally choatic they become."
Hmm, so why do men have a lot more trouble finding women than the other way around?
Anyway, mothers start dressing their girls in slutty clothes when they're 3 years old, so what do you expect? Girls should be confident in jeans and a sweatshirt until they're 15 or so, they shouldn't have to worry about body image and boyfriends.
starling, Lancaster,
Girls, girls girls! You wanted 'equal rights', you got them. Unfortunately the downside is that they come hand-in-hand with 'equal wrongs.'
'Easy' girls have always been out there only now they have equal rights, and - just like their men-slut counterparts - do not feel the need to be particularly ashamed of it.
What did you actually expect was going to happen with your empowerment?
RJ, Jersey, CI,
I have always thought, until parents stop allowing our young girls (5-12) to dress in clothes that a 16 year old would wear, read books and magazines that are too old for them and expose them to TV that is again to old for them, we will continue to raise girls who are confused and pay to much attention to the media. I'm 25 myself and a mother. I now thank my mother for not allowing me to much time with the TV or letting me lose in the magazine racks, being forced to find my own roll models in novels and learning about how to be a young woman from good teachers has left me in much better staid. I think that not just our teenagers but our parents to, need to step up and force change. Well done to the writer's who set up this debate. Ken and Mark if your not part of the solution, your the problem. Shape up boys. Think before you "take advantage" of some young woman, one day it could be your daughter, facing the same problems having the same fears....... Won't feel so great then.
Samantha, Brighton, England
Women are picking up all the worst parts about being male (drinking, driven by sexuality) and yet retaining some of the worst parts of being female (self-consiousness, limited by biology). It's easier to get sex nowadays, and easier to walk away from the girl once you get it. All hail feminism - it's a great time to be a boy!
Ken, Blandford,
It can seem a mystery to many parents doing their best how counter cultural aspiration can take such a hold at times.
The clue is often in some commonality originated by a cult movie, pop icon or peer whose respect by a narrow age group is based on success without establishment help. As bad behaviour is simple to emulate and can attract envy or admiration from others as well as notoriety it is unsurprising that it can be so readily embraced in a world becoming more polarised and competitive.
Unfortunately, the ready availability of media and popular entertainment material (including tv soaps) with such imagery ensures that viral spread of such ideas and imagery is both fast and efficient.
Regrettably, control of such socially undesirable trends may lie in the hands of the thought police, who could usefully turn their attention from correctness ideas and positive discrimination to a concept of negative discrimination, which might also include criminality and violence.
dr venables preller, Warminster, UK
Yes it is a class issue as well as gender. My daughter transferred to a private school (as state failed in teaching & behaviour) where her crowd are a perfect role model. They study hard, support each other, have fun socially, without dropping their values / pants.
They have serious careers to aspire to and see their values as more than, but not excluding, their breeding power.
liz, colchester, uk
Women have lost their value in men's eyes as serious relationship partners. As women become more desperate for men's love and approval, the more sexually and behaviorally choatic they become.
Mark Klein, M.D., Oakland, California
I look forward to the magazine girls. Despite the media constantly producing articles on the negative aspect of the children of the UK, I remind myself of all the youngsters I know who are kind, caring, intelligent, sensitive and hard working. Perhaps if these kids got the media attention the others would work out that bad behaviour does not pay. They and they alone are the losers.
Jo, Kranji, Singapore
"(WOW, Sasha from Hollyoaks)" - Isn't this the problem? Wow, another celebrity - cue star-struck awe & glazed brain. However good somebody is at acting, the role will always be picked for the conformation to the norm of the stereotype in a writer/casting directors head. All humans take a viewpoint of what we see more often. We are social creatures and, as such, take the percieved group view. As we search for enlightenment on the different, unique and interesting topics through media, we are becoming more convinced that this is the normal. Something which you may add to your magazine tv guide - hurry up with it btw - could be facts (or at least latest available figures) on the main topics of a show. For instance, as this is a hollyoaks linked article, percentage and number of people suffering anorexia, breakdown to boys and girls, age range, average long term effects and so on. The people who are affected need to know they are not alone and the rest of us need to know it's not a norm.
Alistair Kipling, Birmingham,
The nonsense about women being paid "less" than men has been shown over and over again to be a fallacy built on averages and the law of large numbers. On average they get paid less because more of them work part time or casually because they have children. End of story. No individual woman gets paid less than her exactly equivalent male colleague in the west any more.
Get over this very dangerous propaganda - it just feeds into the whole silly false notion of "empowerment" that has led to the aggressive female sluttiness in the first place. What the second wave feminists failed to realise was that by behaving like men, they didn't elevate themselves to some position of authority, but merely demeaned themselves to the basest forms of male behaviour , and still ended up waiting for a phone call the next morning. We are now paying for this middle class female hubris with soaring STD rates and girls gone wild. Quite tragic really.
Toby, Sydney, NSW
I'm so glad that this event was organised and pleased at the positive thought processes it inspired in participants. I’d like to say that rather than viewing young women’s binge drinking and eating disorders as anomalous with their academic success, we should recognise the dangerous link between the two. Women today are pressured conform to challenging standards in all areas of their lives; socially engaging, successful, pretty and thin women are considered role models. We must see that eating disorders such as anorexia go hand in hand with efforts to conform to impossibly high standards in other areas. We should stop pressuring teenagers with so many exams, and teen magazines should recognise that their readership are much younger and more vulnerable than the 25 year olds they seem to be catering for.
Harriet, Bath,