Jennifer Howze
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This is war.
Earlier this week American writer Tad Safran described British women as unkempt, overweight and in need of serious moisturising, compared with their American sisters, and readers responded with a landslide of comments. More than 500 Times Online users weighed in on the Brits versus Yanks beauty debate.
The majority of Brits defended their countrywomen, agreeing with Safran that while some may not concentrate as much on appearance, they make up for it with easygoing, engaged personalities. Others pointed out that America has a higher obesity rate than the UK and that you can’t judge American beauty by looking only at the superior specimens in New York and L.A. Still others agreed with Safran, going so far as theorise on the roots of slovenly British (could it be related to school uniforms?).
But the debate expanded to a host of other countries. American beauty? Try Venezuelans, Spaniards or Malaysians, several users insisted.
Or it could be summed up by Peter from Stockholm: Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas.
Here, 50 of the best, funniest and most inflammatory comments from users. Read all of them at the end of the original article and weigh in on the conversation: who’s prettier?
Tad’s wrong
This article reminded me of that old fairground trick where an "artiste" dives from a great height into a pool below. You just can't believe it's that shallow. - Kidd Garrett, Bristol
I sincerely doubt that this guy has actually spent much personal time with British or American women. Come to think of it, I wonder whether he's ever spoken to a woman of any kind. - Jennie, Cincinnati, OH, USA
Dude! Get out of Beverly Hills! Yes, I know it's like Disneyland but if you spend too much time there it will warp your brain...What sane man rejects a "gorgeous" Englishwoman based on the "roughness" of her hands? - Brian W., Los Angeles, USA
As a kiwi living in London and travelled extensively, if you want to see ungroomed and unkept woman head to NZ. - Lance Uppercut, London, UK
Most English women I have met (the good looking ones anyway) are pretentious, high maintenance and uptight. - Duncan Smith, London, England
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How many women in America actually have a budget of $1000 a month for grooming and basic upkeep?! A lot of American women look about 10 years older than they actually are and that's with make-up!!
I, for one, do not entertain the thought of looking and acting like a 'Paris Hilton' or some other airhead that has nothing better to do than have a manicure, etc. I do believe it is important to look after yourself and give a good impression to others of yourself (whether that is a first, or second). However, it is not THE most important thing on the planet. Why on earth would any woman want a man whose only interest is that she looks good?!
It would be nice if heterosexual men spent more money on their appearance other than developing a bigger beer-gut!
Frederike, Brighton, UK
ok,ok but whooose the domestic goddess
div, london,
Tad, I am no oil painting but for crying out loud man you have one eyebrow! If you are getting anything in the UK I hope you are saying thank you. As for the UK - US thing.... Good and and bad in both countries. I'm English and live and work in the US. After being back in the UK over thanksgiving I saw many beauties in, Northampton, Nottingham, Sheffield and Manchester. I am not too sure if I could say that of equivalent cities in the US- Philly, Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Boston
Iain G, Annapolis, MD USA
People are incredibly defensive about this issue.
As someone who travels a lot a would agree with Tad that on the whole more women in america do the grooming thing but i think the percentage in the UK who do is going up quite fast as well. There are cultural issues. Some Brit girls drink more, some American girls eat more.. no big deal.
What i think is odd though is the absolute denial from a lot of posters - especially women - that appearence is important. This is patently not true. People care what their prospective partners look like - male or female. In my experience women are far more judgmental on this issue than men; both of men and more particularly of other women.
It may be that the posters here find partners purely on the basis of personality and ignore all aspects of physical appearence but i would suggest in the real world they are the minority. However on the basis that you are out there i will take by pot belly , acne, buck teeth and bad hair cut to the pub and wait!
dr, london, uk
What is the real issue is value systems: if you think it is important to be a certain size/weight/style in order to facilitate a relationship with someone as shallow as you are then you are more than welcome to go ahead. The rest of us will get on with choosing life and to spend our time and money on something less fleeting than a facial.
Ruth , London,
Since when did being smart = ugly anyway? Why is it not possible to have both? Having lived as an expat in both countries, I will definitely agree with the author. When I lived in the US, I was nice and tidy and took care with my appearance. Now that I live in London, the tendency to do "as the Romans do" has too strong a pull and have become a bit too slovenly. Everytime I come back home (to the Far East) my family comment on my untidy appearance, while back here in the UK, everyone thinks I always look good! Everyone back home as well thinks that I am a bit on the heavy side, while here, I am considered a skinny Minnie. Perhaps the British have become a bit too used to the messy, overweight (Vicky Pollard?) look.
Anna, London,
For goodness sake, there was some truth in the article! It wasn't delivered nicely or fairly (let's face it, most English men are completely awful too!), but as an English woman who does take pride in her appearance I have to agree with Tad that most of them are downright disgracefully unkempt and unattractive. They dress like men, have bovine features and behave in a most unladylike fashion. It just isn't attractive. There is a lot of work to be done to reinstall a sense of decorum and femininity. How can a woman enjoy being so unfeminine; it just isn't natural!
Ollie, London / Knightsbridge, UK
As one who lives in both countries, it is no contest. English women win the beauty contest hands down.
Scott, Texas,
These views are a long time coming, and the responses seem to reflect a recognition of sorts, i think a large portion of english women have been trying to to beat men in the wrong area's such as getting as drunk as possible and foul mouthed which they have right to do, but it makes them seem very unattractive and put on weight. On the whole (not all of them) they have 'Doddgy' masculine butch figures compared to some other nationalities. It's not just physical attributes that make a woman unattractive, it's also the attitude of some english women who only has to look half decent and will not give you the time of day, as if she is a supermodel. I have met some absolutely stunningly beautiful women in many other countries that would make Charlize Theron look like a minger but they would talk to you like normal, why is that? Also, thanks to shows like 'Sex In The City' english women feel it's cool to sleep with as many men as possible. Don't blame them though, this is english culture.
Onim, London, UK
Having lived in a number of countries, I ended up moving to the UK to live in London 4 years ago. I agree with Tad. As a woman, I was shocked at the way British women dress for any occasion or don't bother (depending on how you look at it.).
This fact was brought home to me this summer when my sister who moved to the US visited London for the first time to stay with me. While she was more groomed, I realised I am become more British each year, constantly in black trousers and dodgy tops. It's a tough choice between the gym and the pub and the pub wins most times.
Fortunately, I hadn't degenerated to the point where I owned knickers instead of lingerie. My sister left most of her wardrobe behind for me, together with instructions on how to make-up my face and look after my hair. Come 2008, I will be back to my old self, although this will mean that I stand out on the underground (attractive to the men and mixed reactions from women).
Laurinda, London,
I think you'll find most comments on the original article were not encouraging a transatlantic divide between women, but expressing disgust at the author's reduction of women to decorative (or otherwise) pieces of meat. Why not address an article to that effect rather than trying to cash in on your own infamy?
Amy Quinn, Bristol, UK
I have seen beautiful women in America , and even more beautiful women in united kingdom . The authors comments are cheap and hurtful.
R. HILL, birmingham, united kingdom
L. London. The reason women have responded 'defensively' is because this man is seeking to diguise his real misogyny under a cloak of humour; 'only joking, gals!'
Dectora, London, UK/ex Ireland
Let's even the argument up here. Having journeyed round every country in Europe on a 2005 odyssey I can hand on heart say that we Brits (male AND female) are by the far the ugliest people in the Western Hemisphere. Great as we may have been at deflecting attempts at in invasion since 1066 it's left us with a gene puddle rather than pool; and you can almost hear the British DNA screaming at it's forced to replicate its little helices. I remember reading a free newspaper in Iceland where they were bemoaning (?how/why) that the country was going downhill in various ways. The conclusion was to assure every reader that no matter how bad things were at least the average Icelander wasn't as ugly as the British.
jason, nottingham, UK
I love looking at British women when I come home every summer - and I'm a married woman! They dress to suit their personalities, rather than conforming to the cookie cutter styles I see in the States. And for every unkempt woman in the UK, there's one here who also weighs twice as much.
Toni Summers Hargis, Chicago, USA
I have better things to do with my time and money than spend it on beauty treatments... and I'm still a damn sight better looking than you are Tad Safran.
Nicole, Nottingham, UK
To Sarah, Berkshire:
You go, girl! I'm a New England Yankee. I have great bones, look like I've stepped out of a 17thC painting, am skinny without dieting, and can take twenty years off my calendar age without blushing--or blusher. My beauty secret? I work my *bleep* off. I love my calloused palms (bring on the spades in the summer and the snow shovels in the winter, please). Oh, and mind the wellies at the back door...! I have a certain je ne sais quoi from the odd Nor'easter blasting through my meadows, and a total aversion to spending a dime on my looks. Muck is one of the best words in the language. Liberally applied, it works wonders. Not sure there's enough on either side of the pond to cover Tad what's-his-face, though. Interesting to see what he''ll be like in about sixty years. My guess is pot-bellied, receding or absent hair, and gaps in his capped teeth.
Hmmm. Muck'nMud. Beauty secrets of the truly ageless. Marketing potential? ...Let's talk...:)!
Anne Brackett, Strawberry Banke, USA
Why have so many women responded so defensively to a light-hearted jokey article which wasn't meant to be taken seriously in the first place? I thought the British were supposed to have a sense of humour and be able to laugh at themselves. The author of the article has found the weak spot in the female psyche- being compared unfavourably to other women- it has certainly brought out the competitive claws here!
L. Ng, London,
Umm, times, please explain why this man - who god knows wouldn't pull in most of london - is considered equipped to comment on this?
Anamika, London, UK
Of course Tad Safran is wrong. This article is nothing more than misogynist drivel. Why has it even been put into print? If you substituted the word woman with Black person it would rightly be considered racist and no paper would touch it. Why is sexism considered acceptable? Shame on the Times and shame on all those who have jumped on the bandwagon with their equally sexist responses.
Claire Berliner, London, UK