Sarah Vine
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There’s something in the air. In the more expensive postcodes of Britain, in the upper-earning, over-achieving echelons of life in general, there is a new must-have status symbol. Not a car, not a certain type of house, not a super-sleek yacht, but something much more fundamental – and so much more significant: a child.
Specifically, a fourth child. Leading the pack are some of the richest and most powerful people on the planet: the Blairs, the Gores, the Jaggers, the Pitt-Jolies. Ségolène Royal has four children, as does Ruth Kelly. Roman Abramovich, not to be outdone by mere world leaders and superstars, has five. Nicola Horlick, that veteran overachiever, must have about 27 by now (actually it’s five, but you know what I mean).
Elsewhere, among the ever-increasing ranks of the anonymous super-rich – the fund managers and private equity whizzes – four children has now become almost a minimum requirement. Why? Wouldn’t you have thought that, with all that high-powered posturing, life would be exhausting enough. Why compound things by adding to the never-ending pile of washing and 5am wake-up calls?
Because having four children without incurring so much as a blip in your lifestyle is the ultimate proof of success. The pile of washing is irrelevant: someone else is doing it; there is any number of highly-trained nannies to do the early shift on a Saturday morning. Tony Blair may have been up to his ears in foreign policy when baby Leo came along, but it was a point of principle that he still found time to do the odd night feed. That’s the kind of tough stuff a world leader is made of.
What might defeat ordinary mortals is just so much grist to the alpha daddy’s (or alpha mummy’s) mill. For men, the message is quick and effective: there’s plenty of lead in my pencil. For working women it reinforces just how super they really are: four children, a size ten and still got balls in the boardroom. For nonworking mothers it’s a similar thing: such is their allure that they’ve married an alpha capable of supporting not just her in suitable style, but a nest of embryonic alphas too.
Having four children means that you need a house the size of Texas; it means a convoy on the school run; an army of highly trained staff; multiple school fees. It’s the Darwinian expression of a person’s physical, mental and social superiority.
By comparison, people like myself, for whom two is already plenty hard work, both in terms of holding down a job and generally retaining some, however small, vestige of sanity, are losers.
A friend, whose wife has vetoed having even a third child, let alone a fourth, recently found himself accused of mediocrity (by a father-of-four colleague, naturally).
Mediocrity? What are these people on? And can I have some?

The mother of four
ANDREA HEY
Four children aged 13, 11, 9 and 4
Looking after three children under 4 had been desperately hard work but the
worst was behind us. So what happened five years ago, when my third child
was within striking range of that welcoming reception class door? You’ve
guessed it. As my mother mutters darkly, I have ended up with “more children
than is strictly necessary”.
“How clever you were to get it all over with quickly,” everyone said after my third was born. But the details were lost in the blur. It had all gone so fast. We’d started young and now our friends were beginning to produce gorgeous bundles of their own. I felt broody and left out.
There were also deeper forces at work, less comfortable to examine. At some level, the idea of having four children appealed to my vanity. What a statement about the health of my marriage! Look how competent I must be as a mother! At the time we were feeling financially secure. If I put off rebuilding some sort of career for myself, never mind. I wouldn’t be just a mother; I’d be a chief executive mother! And the small question of what to do with the rest of my life could be shelved for a few more years.
So I luxuriated in the pregnancy, savouring that “last time” feeling. This would be the child whose parents had finally hit their stride: the mother relaxed and experienced, the father competent and attentive. This time we’d do it properly – the activities, the social life, the table manners, all the niceties that had fallen by the wayside in the first crazy batch. Then we were handed 8 lb 4oz of reality, and a whole new set of problems.
Don’t get me wrong. We adore her. We’re beyond lucky to have four healthy children. But perhaps all mothers come prewired with a set number of times that they can perform certain tasks before blowing a circuit. Just how many repetitions of The Wheels on the Bus can anyone bear before reaching for the gin? Think hard about a fourth baby if, like me, you can’t afford a nanny to sing the Postman Pat theme tune while you lie in a darkened room.
Maybe mothers, like other ageing flesh, have a best-before date. I came to realise quite quickly that my energy for the more practical tasks would have been nicely used up by three-and-a-half children. That extra half has sometimes pushed me beyond fulfilment into despair.
The early months passed in a fog of exhaustion. My husband and the cat escaped expulsion from the house, but I can recall banishing the dogs to a kennel: the numbers had to be reduced somehow. I couldn’t cope.
A not untypical “first year” scenario involved driving to school with the baby screaming for some undiagnosed reason; Number Three being sick in a handy bucket; Number Two sobbing because I had put the wrong filling in his sandwich; and Number One announcing that I had forgotten her swimming kit again.
The packed lunches were made with the newborn ululating for the morning feed. Tummy-bug victims couldn’t stay home alone but had to trail out on the school run.
Nurturing another small personality has remained endlessly fascinating, but after 13 years I’m numbed by the practicalities. Forget 9 to 5, it’s the monotony of the 0-to5 routine that kills the spirit. When you shovel yet more gloop into the little mouth or gird yourself for another round of potty training, you know where this is heading and it won’t be pretty.
As Number Four starts to develop her own collection of little friends, fitting her social life into the busy whirl of the greater family is like stuffing a balloon into a sock. My brain can’t hold another classful of names, faces and birthday parties.
I am stale. Walking into her “first” third birthday party felt like stepping back in time. The roar of the bouncy-castle pump, the rioting of hyped-up toddlers, the impossibility of conversation with other distracted parents: hadn’t anything changed? Well, yes. I had.
Older children doing more grown-up things is exciting. Yet our late addition slows us down (or necessitates a babysitter).
Even the simpler aspects of family life – cinema trip, bike ride – are compromised by the little one’s inability to keep up with the gang. Her infant illnesses tear up my agenda at a moment’s notice. Last Saturday I was housebound with a very sick youngest. My husband was left to cope with the birthday disco party (including the scene where teenage daughter locks herself in the loo five minutes beforehand, howling that her outfit is wrong). I can feel my eldest storing that particular maternal absence for future recrimination.
Whereas our third child’s delight in the birth of his fan club has been constant, there is slight resentment in the older pair. “You said that when Freddie was bigger we’d go on a skiing holiday. Instead we got another baby,” moaned the elder daughter.
Plus a bigger car . . . financially, how naive we were. My broody self had “reasoned” that surely one more baby wouldn’t add that much expense. What about all the hand-me-down clothes, toys and equipment that we already owned?
But it transpires that the cost of rearing four children is actually about one third again more than the cost of raising three.
Funny, that. The lesson I have learnt is that having four children is indeed a status symbol. But doing it in comfort is the preserve of the seriously rich.
Life out there feels closer now but I still can’t quite touch it. And when my baby starts school in September, I face my fourth encounter with the same reading scheme.
There is a look that I recognise in the eyes of mothers of four. No matter how much we dote on our brood, it’s as if we left something important behind and can’t quite remember what it is. Socks? Wipes? Car seat? No. It was our better judgment.

Three’s company
EMMA THOMPSON
Three children aged 13, 12 and 8-going-on-13
My second son was a peaceful, agreeable child and I thought that I’d cracked
this parenthood lark. But two kids felt too neat and tidy, so we “went back”
for another.
Two kids is a pair, three is a pack and I found myself spread as thinly as the butter on Victoria Beckham’s toast. Yes, I know, that high-flyer in the City has eight. But with two nannies on a round-the-clock rota, it’s not herself she’s spreading, is it?
So was that it for us? My husband never wanted the expense of four: end of story. My mother wanted her once-educated daughter back from the land of barefoot and pregnant. And yet, and yet . . . in a woman’s heart there is always room for one more child. I know so many women – some far beyond menopause – who live with this regret. There is a deep-seated longing to know how the recipe might turn out next time.
If you have a single-sex family, heading back to the lucky dip for “one last go” seems especially tantalising. While my sons were in Cornwall last summer, I found myself wistfully picturing my friend Amy’s youngest. In sandy knickers, with bucket and spade, she would have made a jolly addition to our family.
Perspective was restored by an e-mail from Amy herself: “Owing to the impossibility of entertaining four across a nine-year age gap, I have perfected the art of reading the paper while the little darlings maraud over the wreckage of my life’s aspirations.” Yes, putting one’s own life on hold may seem seductive but you can’t keep the nest full for ever.
The logistics are more challenging than running a FTSE 100 company, minus the status. Swimming is one entertainment for all ages, but the pool won’t admit you if three are under 8. And the older your eldest, the less hope of having them all abed by 7pm to get some recovery time. I see the weariness in Amy. There’s a funny, driven woman in there but she’s Not Available Until Further Notice.
You have to know your limits. Instead of a fourth baby, we got a dog. He’s cuddly and loving, yet when I’ve had enough of his whining I can shut him in a cage and go out on my own.
Nevertheless, I picture my old age, with my sons’ love transferred elsewhere. Meanwhile, Amy will have two lovely daughters to help her choose a new coat.
Perhaps it's not too late to go back for one more after all. You can rationalise that it’s not a good idea, yet this is irrational territory. The door is shutting on a powerful experience, and it’s still mighty tempting to go back and fling it open.
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i love this article, like the mum in the article, i found 3 a piece of cake and at 40 decided to have one more.hahaha, my life ended. 4th c-section, a week in special care, a boy (after 3 girls) who did not sleep longer than 4 consecutive hours for over 2 years.i was knackered, totally and utterly.
jane ashworth, woodford, england
This is just the site I have been looking for! My three are boy (5) girl (3) and by (6mths) and as much as I try and try and try, I just cannot shake my desire for another one. I am not an alpha mother at all, many days I barely cope with the kids I have, but it still feels like someone is missing. I am one of four as is my husband, maybe that is all it is. I love having three siblings. Actually, the trend for successful women to have 4 is one thing that puts me off, I hate the thought of being part of that scene. I know that for so many practical reasons (money, marital happiness, bedrooms, holidays etc), I should be thrilled to stop at 3 but.... To add to the wierdness of this, all my kids were conceived with ivf - first time lucky with each except one miscarriage, you would think I would feel luck enough to never need to think about more. Plus I am 38 so for medical reasons it also makes sense to stop at three healthy kids. Help!!
Mary Wilcox, Newcastle, Australia
We happen to live in a small Buckinghamshire village where three children seems to be a starting bid, four the norm and five unremarkable. All of the previous comments are valid. I thought that four children was perfectly manageable and made the perfect family, then became pregnant with number five. So now I have a threesome (Girl 13, girl 11 and boy 9) followed by two (girl 2 and boy awaiting to be born). They are all very individual and have different needs. At times they are exasperating, annoying and very difficult. But they are overwhelmingly wonderful and I wouldn't be without any of them.
caroline, wendover, bucks
To respond to those who are "appalled" at those who have more than two children: a) an average of more than two per couple is required to maintain the population b) increasingly couples are not having any children. As a result those having more than two in the UK are helping to maintain the population. Are you suggesting we should shrink our population? If so is this really going to help as our economy falls to bits? Highly supercilious in my opinion.
Greg, Swindon,
We have 4 children ages 8,6,5 and 7 months. Yes it is a juggling act. We flying by the seat of my pants most of the time. Our fourth was conceived by accident. I had an IUD and was totally taken by surprise. I was so worried what it would do to our family dynamic which was at last less chaotic than it had been. But, we have adored the experience of seeing our older children totally smitten with our baby Daniel. He is the apple of all our eyes. Yes I must often have that confused look about me. I forget things. I often "drop the ball". I am definitely NOT the "alpha mum". But my kids don't seem to mind. They have their baby brother and parents who are content to run their own race and not really care too much for the unrealistic expectations of their parent peers.
Kellie Rigney, Wilmette, USA, IL
I am a divorced mother of four (16-15-13-9) and finacially not secure at all, but I still feel this is the perfect number - there is always somebody at home for the other to keep company. Because of the big number housework is shared and not a lot has to be done by one. Also they have a sense of unity no friend can live up to. I can see when they grow up they will look after one another, which is the most a parent can wish for.
Lotti, Pecs, Hungary
The idea of WANTING more than 2 children is the height of
irresponsibility, the earth is incapable of supporting such an excesses of peopl,e it will inevitably lead to war and disaster. A world population of 1500 million would lead to a happier earth, with much better disrtibution of natural resources. [A two family].
DAVID VINTER, Loith, Lincs. , UK.
As one of 4 children myself I find the views of certain people on this board offensive. My parents never had 4 children to achieve some form of social status or to pander to their personal vanity (infact I'm entirely sure that having 4 children in a tiny village in scotland does not have the same social status as having them in london). I had a very happy childhood, and felt loved and wanted. I object to the accusation that my parents were selfish.
If you look at the environmental impact of bringing 4 children up in the UK, who didn't take foreign holidays and had compost and recycling bins before they were trendy and compare it against bringing up 2 children with foreign holidays and a tv aways on standby. I think we would come out better!
As for the "resources" argument!- I think you will find that families are actually getting smaller. My grandmother was one of 15!
Gemma , Manchester, Uk
Already, I spy two responses related to the environment. Our eldest (of six) was green officer for his college this year. If you ask the older three what is most important to them, they well might say suggest a green issue. Parenting isnt a numbers game it is about loving and cherishing and on a rare occasion, when time permits, trying to instil values. The eldest recently said that he had enjoyed his childhood. This is the biggest compliment that I have ever received. I have only one down side comment (over and above laundry etc which is self inflicted).Families with heaps of kids are rarely invited out to Sunday lunch. I can often hear the relief in a voice, when, a brave friend has braced herself to take on the tribe and I am able I am able to shorten the list, where various family members have been prebooked. For any mother who is relishing the day that the youngest can get boots on a right and a left foot successfully this is just the beginning it gets better and better and the pay back is mammoth.
Fi Bird, Angus, Scotland
Four children is not a big family. It's medum-size.
Ruki, London,
Hello,
I am quite amused about this discussion. We have 5 children in a child-unfriendly German society- but I regrett not a single one! The first years we both were also students, had 2 little kids, lots to do, pass our exams.
My husband started with 1800 DM before tax as a young medical doctor- not much money for 4 persons. But the time was exciting, full of life! And when I was looking for special offers, dressed in old clothes with 5 little kids people looked at me like a poor underdog.
The most important thing is: Realise your dreams and life plans without always looking for "normality" and "what will the others think of you?".
Now I often see other looks around us : our children are now older, clever, smart...
I don´t regrett nothing! And now I have enough time to work again in a job, perhaps until I am 70...(Germany will have many, many old people in the future and few kids).
Families, you are the future!
Claudia Spranger, Germany
Claudia Spranger, Gmund, Germany
I had 3 boys the youngest one 7yrs old, when I discovered I was pregant again, another boy was born ,I had another one to keep him company and it was a girl, I am now 62yrs old and still have the two youngest at home and dread the thought of them leaving, they keep me young in mind and body because I am still picking up after them.cooking and washing and my three older boys' come with their partners for dinner once a week & on sundays for lunch. I feel I am been very lucky to have such a close family and would not change a thing. So I say to Emma "open the door and let them in" and if you are as lucky as me your children will share their love with you, and with their partners, they will not transfer it. and although I did'nt have a 5th child just because I wanted a girl I am very glad I have a daugher she has been very ill recentley and her brothers have been a tower of strength to myself and my husband . so I wont be puting my feet up and geting old I have too much to do!
veronica, warwickshire,
It's not population growth that's the cause of the strain on the planet's resources; it's Man's materialism, unbridled consumerism, and selfish lifestyle. The poorer nations of the world have many more children than the West has, yet are the least drain on natural resources. The West as a negative birth rate, were not even sustaining ourselves at current negative rates, so the population time bomb woe-sayers such as M Burrows below keep on about is a myth, and not at all supported by statistics.
LizT, London, UK
Already, I spy three responses related to the environment. Our eldest (of six) was green officer for his college this year. If you ask the older three what is most important to them, they well might say suggest a green issue. Parenting isnt a numbers game it is about loving and cherishing and on a rare occasion, when time permits, trying to instil values. The eldest recently said that he had enjoyed his childhood. This is the biggest compliment that I have ever received. I have only one down side comment (over and above laundry etc which is self inflicted).Families with heaps of kids are rarely invited out to Sunday lunch. I can often hear the relief in a voice, when, a brave friend has braced herself to take on the tribe and I am able I am able to shorten the list, where various family members have been pre-booked. For any mother who is relishing the day that the youngest can get boots on a right and a left foot successfully this is just the beginning it gets better and better and the pay back is mammoth.
Fi Bird, Angus, Scotland
I think Mia of Brisbane has the right idea: it's not about how many (or how few) children you have, it's about whether you can give all of your children the love and attention they need. If you can happily raise four healthy children, why not? If you would be miserable trying to raise even one child, then why have any?
Michael, Pueblo, Colorado
Already, I spy three responses related to the environment. Our eldest (of six) was green officer for his college this year. If you ask the older three what is most important to them, they well might say suggest a green issue. Parenting isnt a numbers game it is about loving and cherishing and on a rare occasion, when time permits, trying to instil values. The eldest recently said that he had enjoyed his childhood. This is the biggest compliment that I have ever received. I have only one down side comment -Families with heaps of kids are rarely invited out to Sunday lunch. I can often hear the relief in a voice, when, a brave friend has braced herself to take on the tribe and I am able to shorten the list, where various family members have been pre-booked. For any mother who is relishing the day that the youngest can get boots on a right and a left foot successfully this is just the beginning it gets better and better and the pay back is mamouth.
Fi Bird, Angus, Scotland
I just don't understand the big fuss being made of three or four children in a family. We are four brothers. My parents didn't have any of the modern facilities available today.
There were no cars,refrigerators,washing machines, fancy toys,diapers etc. etc. We had the bear basics. Dad went to work and mom cooked, cleaned, washed and looked after the kids. We had a loving family and today all four of us are educated and well settled
A friend of mine was divorced and left with three children aged 2,3 and 5 She taught in high school and looked after her three boys all by herself. All three are university graduates and two of them post graduates.
So what's the big deal of these rich mothers with nannies and all the modern luxuries having 3/4 children!! I wonder what they will do if their income was just about enough to manage the monthly expences and no state help.
Amarjeet Singh, DElhi , India
Do we want a society where private equity types produce the bulk of the next generation AND own most of the high street? Maybe we can apply the Chinese one-child policy those who treat kids as status symbols.
Ayesha, London,
To S. Jones, Llandudno,
I'm pleased you thought raising 3 kids was a piece of cake but I'm not sure if you remember the bad bits years later when they have grown up. I'm not sure how old you are but both my mother and mother-in-law claim none of their children ever had tantrums and that none of their children were as rowdy as children are nowadays. Amazing isn't it !!
Sheila, Suffolk,
"Having four children means that you need a house the size of Texas; it means a convoy on the school run; an army of highly trained staff; multiple school fees."
Well I grew up in a family of 4 without any of those things and did just fine! I knew families growing up who managed on one income with 6, 7 or 8 children and they all did very well in life (although skiing holidays were out of the question).
Having a large family and maintaining a double income in the current economy of high house prices would certainly be tricky but 3 or 4 children does not constitute a large family by any measure.
One thing is certain, however, I'm the youngest of 4 and I'd be very disturbed if I read an account of my arrival into the family like Andrea Hey's above. How selfish of her to only think of her own "boredom" with her youngest. So her child's 1st birthday is just deja vu? I hope for her sake, her youngest never reads that - what a cruel thing to say. All 4 kids should be equally valued
MB, Edinburgh,
In response to the comment on having more than two children being selfish, there are two other things to be remembered. Firstly, we have a dropping birth rate in Europe, something which is causing concern with an ageing population. While I don't suggest we all have families of four or more, many nations are encouraging larger families. Secondly, in this country there are increasing numbers of women in my own age group (26-35) who are choosing not to have children at all and these bigger families are probably only plugging the gap caused by this. Certainly amongst my own friends the majority are choosing to have no children at all rather than more than two. There is also the financial factor, with many people unable to afford more than two children, so this trend is likely to be restricted anyway. Good luck to all the parents of large families, it sounds fun but chaotic!
C.Scott, Exeter, England
Four in four years including the last two who were twins was pretty exciting. But we were young (right out of college)
and it was wonderful. -- you get focused quickly. Gets interesting too when there are four in adolescence at the same time Also, that meant four in college one year and four in graduate school one year. No student loans -- they all got the same start in life after college that we did without any debt.
Now we get to visit the grand children, spoil them and go home.
Jim, Roscoe, USA
Of course its HUMAN population growth that is putting pressure on the planets resources. There are nearly 7 billion people on the planet - this makes a difference. What idiot would think otherwise???
John, London, UK
For goodness sake, having four children does not require a house' the size of Texas' or 3 nannies. I am the youngest of four. We had a 5 bed house (extension of one bedroom built when I was 6), no nanny, holidays at my grandmother's every summer (no skiing, no caribbean jaunt) and school buses. No TV, no 'fashionable' clothes, no Gameboys, Nintendos etc. We were never rich but my parents managed by realising that it's about what you CHOOSE to spend your money on.
Incidentally, having four children was not a sign of my parents' wonderful marriage or their great success. I was an accident and they're now divorced.
Julia, London,
I don't understand why these two mother are supposed to be giving vonflicting views, as the story into suggest. They are both saying 'it's hard don't do it', just one mother realised that before having the fourth child and the other one didn't.
I was expecting one story to be about the joys of four children but they are both negative.
Brian coldwell, Ipswich, UK
Dear Sara
We too have four children, all boys. Now 23, 21 and twins of 18. I remember it well - but on a point of order Tony Blair should not have been doing the "night feeds".
Our children were all breast-fed.
Dave Reynell, Knysna, South Africa,
In 1957 every one of the 27 countries that are now EU members had fertility rates above 2.1 Now, none does. (The fertility rate is the number of children a woman can expect during her lifetime; 2.1 is the replacement level, the point at which the population stabilises.)
If their is anything to worry about it is not over population.
The few families that are lucky enough to have four children help to compensate the many that have none or just one.
Matthew, father of 4 girls, Bordeaux,
I am full-time mother to one three-year-old. I get absolutely no help from any relatives and am permanently skint. It's EXHAUSTING ! People with more than two children are either mad or loaded enough to pay for regular childcare breaks.
It always makes me smile when I read some celebrity talking about the joys of motherhood and then later in the interview finding out she has a "wonderful nanny".
FatCarol, Cheshire,
Great reading !! I have four and could really relate to the article. 15,14,10 & 8 three boys and no 4 girl fab combination.
jo harris, midhurst, England
I am the father of 4 : 3 girls (9,8,3) and a boy (1). My wife leaves the house to go to work before they wake up, and gets home when I have them showered homework done etc. I am a teacher and maybe could have been other things in life as could have my wife. I find it hard to speak of my children in terms of numbers because I find it insults their dignity as individual human beings. I am willing to give my life for anyone of them, so how can I not put my book reading on hold for a few years for them. It is really fundamentally immature to focus child rearing on how it affects our little dream worlds. The life of a person is immeasurably more important than any mundane achievement, especially if one has had the immense priviledge to participate in the generation and nurture of many let alone one individual. As in everything generosity and love are the keys to happiness , numbers are only good for codes!
Paul, Barcelona, Spain
A very interesting and welcome article, my response is relevent in that i have 4 children as opposed to the green warriors above. Global warming, third world starvation and 4x4's have nothing to do with how many children we have within a family - a womans individual biologcal and emotional needs are will always come first, that's what makes us human. But, if you are currently 3 down wih possibly 1 to go, be prepared to sacrifice more than you're maybe currently imagining - it doesn't get easier, you just have to juggle even more and spend less time with each child individually. At 5am every morning the financial and global costs are irrelevant.
Irresponsible of Norwich
P Dean, Norwich, Norfolk
We have four...but one is adopted...that's PERFECTION! You help maintain healthy growth AND you help relieve a terrible situation for one dear child. Our adopted daughter now is married with a family of her own; a Master's Degree in Family Counselling; and plays football with her 3 girls!
Roger, Wenatchee, WA, USA
I'm one of four, with a high-flying mother. However, there was no ambition to be the ultimate alpha female involved; I'm told that four was the magic number simply because my mother likes even numbers, and my father wanted more than two! I love being one of four. I feel incredibly lucky to be part of such a big, close, family. I don't know how others cope with less than three siblings!
Lucy, London,
To Arnold, Jane & M.Burrows,
Britain's women now produce only 1.4 children per woman [down from 2.1 only 20 years ago]. This is below population replacement rate of 2.1 per woman. Who will pay your & my pensions in 30 years time? It won't be the children of the "underclass". It will probably be the high-achieving children of these "alpha" parents in a future knowledge-based economy. Good on these superwomen. We need more of them & I need one for myself!
Mark, Middlewich, UK
Our 4 are 30,28,21 and 19. The first two were heavy going - my wife fed both until they were over two so she had 4 years of interrupted nights. That required a period of rest which lasted 7 years. When nos 3 came along more by chance than design he seemed to be a little on his own being so much younger than his two older brothers so we were happy when nos 4 came along - with the added bonus that it was a daughter! This was back in the 1970's and 1980's and we certainly did not view having 4 as being some sort of status symbol! Pity we were not in France where such fecundity would have been better rewarded with tax breaks etc! They are all very bright and, hopefully, will contribute far more to society than they consume. We can't leave having large families just to those who have no other talent than breeding!
Kevin, Kent,
I have three children which is fine, if a little difficult at times when there aren't enough arms to go around. There does seem to be a cruel trick played on us women however, when we see others with sweet little newborn bundles, where our hearts and minds forget the trauma of having a new child and desperately desire yet another. After 3 C-sections I had myself sterilised and I have been grateful many times since because I have often felt that call for another baby. Four children does move you into another league financially if you want to even do the bare minimum of swimming lessons, holidays etc. For the average family, camping will be the only option in school holidays and two toilets may not be enough! I wouldn't change my children for the world but I feel sad that I am often unable to provide the many things I would like to in a consistent and fair fashion. Every time I invite a friend for a playdate, I am always thinking 'Oh no, that's 2 more friends I need to invite now!'
D East, Norwich, UK
What a heartwarming read. I've got three and, for one reason or another, its just the four of us often at weekends. Boy, girl, boy - two years between each - and the time we share feels so complete that thoughts of another rarely crop up. Any little body under 4 is a tyrant, however charming it looks in pyjamas. So why have another, now that my perfect three are getting interesting and giving?
Because I've just met the woman of my dreams. and she hasn't got one.
Life, eh?
Oh, and by the way, a big fan of DIY parenthood. You get out what you put in. We are close because I changed nappies, bathe them, feed them, read with them. Because they now know that they can take me for granted, they give me little breaks every now and then, and go off and self-start. Anyone with attention-seeking kids will know how lucky I am.
Thanks for the article. Good luck to us all.
J, London,
It's not population growth that's a strain on the planet's resources; it's Man's materialism, unbridled consumerism, and selfish lifestyle. The poorer nations of the world have many more children than the West, yet are the least drain on natural resources. The West has a negative birth rate, were not even sustaining ourselves at current negative rates, so the population time bomb woe-sayers such as M Burrows below keep on about is a myth, and not at all supported by statistics.
LizT, London, UK
We thought we were having three children when No3 turned to out to be 3 & 4. The eldest was 5 at the time and with the nearest parents 120 miles away we had to cope. No house the size of Texas, no help in the house and all on a teacher's salary which wasn't a lot at the time.
Clothes were handed down and passed on by relatives and holidays were spent at family homes. These was no automatic washer, tumble dryer, freezer or dishwasher then and I always used towelling nappies. (They made wonderful floor clothes and lasted until the youngest were 12 years old!)
As the children became teenagers, mealtimes were noisy affairs, but we all ate together most of the time. No special pandering to fads although my eldest daughter had developed Type 1 diabetes. They were never short of playmates.
I didn't think about how tired I was, I even managed to tend a small garden.
Now, 40 years on, I wouldn't have had it any other way. No time for self pity!
Julia Dickinson, Bristol,
why don't we stop trying to impose yet another model to women, and instead we start looking for really effective ways to help women to be good mothers, regardless of the number of children? And what about those women who are lucky enough if they ever manage to have one? How should they feel?
claudia domenici, bristol,
Ms Hey writes: <i>Her infant illnesses tear up my agenda at a moments notice</i>
What a lovely sentiment. So her child's illnesses are merely an inconvenience to her and her life. How selfish of the baby to get ill and wreck her shopping trips and ski holidays!
And then this, from Ms Thompson's friend Amy:
<i>Owing to the impossibility of entertaining four across a nine-year age gap, I have perfected the art of reading the paper while the little darlings maraud over the wreckage of my lifes aspirations. </i>
I'm tired of women (and men) acting like having children is the end of life as we know it; a chore to be endured and gotten through, not enjoyed and undertaken with the foresight to know that it's a tough but rewarding job. If your life's aspirations don't include children then DON'T HAVE THEM. There's no reason to put one's life on hold to raise children -- children should enhance your life, not hinder it.
Amity, London, UK
We have four girls (11, 8, 6, 3). Priceless article, captures the true nature of the conundrum so well. The difference between three and four is strange. Our third daughter is peaceful, patient and precise; warm, thoughtful and studious."We've finally cracked it!" we thought. We as parents have raised our game and the challenges of # 1 have shaped our skills. Then along came # 4: mercurial, fierce, single-minded, loud. She is enchantingly beautiful, but formidable. We realised it was nothing to do with us. Each one is performing as designed, regardless of our greater experience or improved patience.
The experience has nearly driven my wife into an institution. The four-way dialogues; the contrasting needs; the difficulty finding activities all four would enjoy; the ever-increasing pressure to "do Disney" before #1 is too old...
...but when things run smoothly, now not so rare, the experience is remarkable and the sense of family immeasurably strong.
Four is the magic number!
Greg, Swindon, Wilts
I don't think it's all about status symbols. To me and my wife, from big families ourselves, it just didn't feel right with 2 or 3 kids. We wanted more, maybe to recreate something of what we enjoyed as kids.
Without a lot of money, it's been hard work but with the youngest now 4, it's starting to feel easier but it did mean one of us giving up work and so sacrificing some material wealth.
Any for me, 4 is good and getting better. No regrets but no more either.
James Hogan, Dublin,
"If everyone had four children" - yeah, but they're not going to, are they? What is, about 20 per cent of women now choosing not to have kids? And most parents stop at one or two. I can't see the problem with choosing to have a larger family - as one of four kids myself, I loved having three siblings.
Jane, Edinburgh,
Just what the world needs, greedy, resource-guzzling white westerners doubling their own numbers. If we, as a race (human) are to get past our possibly imminent demise, it will be because there are a great deal fewer of us, not more.
Rotwatcher, CHELTENHAM,
I love having four children. Yes it is hard work keeping up with the laundry, the cooking, the shopping- who is doing what when- but we work as a team. We don't have nannies or paid help and we have bags of fun. Not all activities can be done at the same time- such as all go cycling -that will come with time. Yes- it is tiring and we have good days and bad days,organised and disorganised, but it is that lovely feeling of warmth, when you check them on your way to bed and see their beautiful, peaceful, serene faces that keeps you going.
G.Jones, Bristol,
It looks as though your children will be ungrateful and unhappy however many of them you have. Reading these comments, children in 2-children families feel they have missed out by being raised in a "quiet, well-behaved house" while the youngest of four laments how they had to wait for everything. The middle child of three says they "would never do that to my child." Blimey. It seems we all want what we didn't have, so have as amny children as you want and don't worry about the impact family size will have on them as they will moan anyway!
Leigh (mother of 3), Porthcawl,
Yes, "Its the Darwinian expression of a persons physical, mental and social superiority." It's also good fun. When we had the house, the income, the careers, the lifestyle what could be next - house abroad, yacht... no, two more children (we have five now) is much more fun. You see it all over the City too - women with 5, 6, 7 children (and men too). It's one thing to have an alpha career but to combine it with a lovely large family and happy family life is just so lovely and nicer for the children too.
supermother, London,
Its quite discomforting how some of the people screeching about global warming and end world poverty now are precisely the same people having large families - such hypocracy, can they not see that each new child adds another human footprint on this overcrowded and fragile planet of ours.
Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK
Children are wonderful blessings after marriage, however, I think the number you have depends on your ability to cope with mess, mundane routine, discipline, commitment and many other demands that we take for granted. Four children sounds rather nice, big families are always a joy espcially when they are grown up. All the sacrifices and hard work are rewarded with wonderful memories and family reunions. However, this only applies to happy families which is not always the case. Children can be very expensive if you want to give them the best, but some families are prepared to provide the absolute basic needs which I think is a good idea so that children dont grow up being materialistic. There is no match however to giving all the love and care to children be it your own or adopted ones.
Mia, Brisbane, Australia
In this dangerously overpopulated world it's absolutely irresponsible for any couple to have more than two children, one to replace each of them when they die.
Jane, London , UK
Too true. I live near Chiswick where the pavements of the High Road are crowded with the Chiswick Mothers' Mafia decked out in designer gear and pushing their Chiswick tractors (double buggies). There will be a third child on the buggy board and the eldest child on a scooter (and with a couple of nannys in tow).
Ciaran Smith, London,
I am a mother of 3 aged 7, 6 and 3 (yes, I once had 3 under 5!!) and must say that lately I have been feeling a lot broody! I work as an IT Consultant in the city, feel guilty loads of time about not having enough "quality" time with my 3, YET considering number 4!
Sometimes I wonder what it is that makes me want another one especially whenever I see another oh so cute baby! My husband wants another boy to make it even (have 2 giirls and a boy), my parents and mother-in-law are all wondering why the long wait (3 years!!), I am wondering if I am forgetting what having a baby means three years on and especially as I am still potty training!
Maybe if I get a proper nanny (or 2!) I will give it serious thought. For now "sanity" appears to be prevailing... but then again, you never know, the thought of another boy is definitely enticing...
Chinwe, London,
Britain is one of the worlds most overcrowded countries. If everyone had four children and the vast majority of those children survived to child bearing age themselves, and so on, then population size would double each generation. Just a thought.
Steven, Oxford,
What a negative article. Doesn't anyone ENJOY parenthood any more? I didn't think raising 3 children was 'hard work'. It was a privilege and a pleasure to produce 3 gorgeous babies and nurture them into adulthood.
S. Jones, Llandudno, Wales
I'm appalled by this article. With all the mounting pressures on our natural resources, it's just plain selfish to bring anymore than two children per couple into our increasingly bulging planet. Especially, with motives such as improving one's status, feeling left out, and appealing to one's vanity. I feel horrified, and deeply saddened by this sort of reasoning. I don't doubt for a second that these children are loved, but the purpose for which they have been conceived seems more akin to buying a flashier car, or a bigger house.
M. Burrows, Ipswich, England
It is wonderful that there is such an urgency among the "well to do" for more offspring. Let's wait and see when this new trend wears off and the couples decide that 4 luxury vehicles will be less bother and more cachet. I think articles like this are a lot of nonsense. Bringing up children is hard work if you want to do it right and to turn it into some sort of prestige item is most irresponsible.
isabell, Pu7nta del Este, Uruguay
I've always thought that two children was the perfect number: each one has company, there are two parents to share the work, it's financially manageable and it shouldn't overpopulate our suffering planet. And I can tell my daughter that she's special because she's our firstborn, and my son that he's special because he's our last child.
I'm the middle of three children myself. I suspect there lies the explanation for this extraordinarily strong opinion of mine...
Valerie, London, UK, UK
I'm one of four and have four children of my own. It is perfectly possible to have four children without an army of nannies etc., but there's no doubt it's demanding some of the time - or all of the time when one or more are under 5. However, it balances out when they are all playing contentedly together, when they look out for each other at school, when there is always a helper to hand.
Tim Farnhill, York,