And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, "Speak to us of Children."
And he said:
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as he loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.
by Kahlil Gibran

S, , UK

I don't doubt this is a useful book for a few divorced fathers. But the real problem is this: how can a divorced dad be a proper parent when the divorced mum wants to stop him seeing the kids so that she can maximise her CSA child maintenance award and the courts only order contact to take place in a supervised contact centre for two hours every other weekend. That's the reality that many, many divorced fathers face.

Until the family courts start seeing equal shared parenting as the starting point after divorce and the child maintenance system is reformed (to stop rewarding mothers that stifle contact), well-intentioned self-help books like this one will only find a small audience for which it has practical use.

Divorced Dad, UK,

I am a divorced Father of two girls. My own experience is that my relationship with my daughters is far richer and deeper than if i had stayed with my wife. Not only is the enviroment in which we all live much less stressful (i.e. no feuding parents), the time I spend with them is all about the three of us - real quality time where we talk and play and interact, and really get to know each other. It may not be everyone's experience, but in terms of my girls and I divorce was definatly a positive, and I'm happy to say that the girls agree.

Warren, London,

Except for heartaches over the children, my experience following divorce mirrors Mark Laycock's. That's why like so men today I'll never remarry or do a live-in arrangement. I'm amazed by the number of middle aged educated men who've never married not for the lack of opportunities but because they think it inherently unsatisfying and too risky. Under today's divorce laws marriage for men a akin to betting the emotional and financial ranch. In my 60s I think the secret sauce for senior happiness is a good laundry service and a house cleaner whose English is just good enough to follow instructions but not to hold conversations. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't have married.

Mark Klein, M.D., Oakland, California

This is so encouraging to read, I have scoured the net and books for experiences that can help me through the recent pain of seperating from my 4 year old daughter. Suddenly, I have gone from being a Dad who was always praised for being so hands-on to now being accused of being useless and not having a clue, its heartbreaking. Being told by solicitors that 2 to 3 days a month visitation is fair and reasonable has shocked me to the core. In January, I hope to buy a 2 bedroom house that is suitable for my daughter to come and stay and I will seek to be able to have her stay every other weekend like the author has had. The ideas in this article are very good and positive - I hope the divorced mothers and their families read this and learn that there is a load of us Dads devoted to putting things right and being the best divorced Dad in the world.

Daniel Luddington, Sussex, England

Re: JFLEMING's comment. A lot of fathers do not want to be 'relieved' of the pressure of parenting. My husband's life was blown apart when his ex took his kids to Australia. His income is spent on child support and an annual trip to see them. He hates having so little influence in their life - for example, he has had to see the kids being sent to unsuitable schools, and their active extra-curricula activities stop.

liz carter, huntingdon,

How can divorce be good for the relationship between fathers and their children when about half don't maintain regular contact with their children? I'm sure in many cases it is not their fault, they may be denied access or the children may simply lose that connection, though of course, some do leave and not look back. I can see the point of trying to make the best of a bad situation, but to pretend it is actually enhancing the relationship is perhaps over-stating the case.

Mumtotwo, Exeter, Devon

I wish that I could see my children. As hard as it is for people to only see their children part-time under frequently difficult circumstances, as this article highlights, it is still possible to generate a close bond. How close a bond can you maintain when you're allowed to send only a card a month and presents? Until the law truly recognises equality between parents my children and I won't be the only ones denied contact with each other.

SM, Bristol, UK

So the author's wife moved 600 miles away effectively preventing the children seeing their father unless he changed his job and HE travelled to see them. He bent over backwards to ensure an enduring relationship whilst the mother pleased herself, and his advice is to effectively pander to her selfish motives in order to give a false impression that the world is a rosy place? He would serve his children far better in the long-term if he enforced his rights to have his ex-wife contribute 50/50 to arrangements. If she refuses, the children will in time recognise their mother for the selfish woman she is and naturally come back to their father. A pretty painted room is simply an attempt to fool the children and prevent them seeing the truth and should be totally discouraged. They will learn that women can blackmail men emotionally, be selfish and men will accept it. What utter rubbish.

john smith, manchester, uk

i would suspect that if fathers took some of the advice given while still married they may find their home lives improving and a divorce avoided.

adrienne, JHB,

"God's intention and purpose for the human race Virginia? He was never married was he? so how would he know?

Howard , Savannah,

Any article that is trying to help the dads that want to be innvolved in their childrens life is a good one. My daughter is 4 and i have fought for the last four years to be a part of her life, I am happy to say that I now have joint custody of her and not only do we go camping, and work around the house together, but now i can also paint nails and do hair like a stylist.
Something that has helped with my daughter is me having a good female friend (not a girlfriend that may come or go, It may be one of your mates wives) but someone that can do "girly" things with her. I am regularly told "No boys allowed" by my daughter when my friend is around.
Just get innvolved and do what it takes.

Kieran Browner, Denver, Colorado USA

I think a lot of parents, divorced or not, could probably benefit from reading this book.
My father's lack of commitment to or understanding of his children, both before and after the divorce, has left all four children very jaundiced about marriage. And my mother encouraging us not to talk to him left us sad, angry and confused.
I wish people would acknowledge that just because a marriage doesn't end in divorce doesn't mean it's not a deeply toxic environment for the children to experience.

Child of divorced parents, London , UK

What gives a "mother" the right to take her children 300 miles from their father when they are still infants? Its about time that the Courts started reading the 'Childrens Act' and the bit that says judgements are "in the best interests of the welfare of the child" - not the mother. How can it be in a childs best interests to be separated from their father by an insurtmoutable distance. The author Simon Baker is lucky to be able to afford to travel the 300 miles every other weekend, and be able to relocate. Many men are not so lucky - and their children's lives a lacking as a result. The legislation may as well be renamed "The Selfish Mothers Act".

Ian Dykes, Lewes, UK

As someone who has a shared care arrangement with his child and has always been 'involved' (such an uncomfortably loaded word), the above depiction is of your standard Mother wins all scenario re contact and residence and Dad taking the crumbs off the table. Leaving aside the defeatist attitude, some of the tips are almost laughable and I can only hope that someone out there benefits from the knowledge that a washing machine is important and that dirty/soiled clothes ought to be washed as soon as possible. There is after all a bell curve so inevitably a child somewhere has benefited from such pearls of wisdom.

For the vast majority of normal in the middle bell-curvers, this much of this is obvious and doesn't really add to some of the other more informative books such as For The Sake of the Children by Families Need Fathers to mention just one. Despite by criticism any support available for fathers who have to struggle with little or no support is better than nothing.

Gavin, London,

This piece and the book appear to be for those men who are comparatively recently divorced and have young children.

Never forget that even when the children are adult, it is important that their relationship with their father continues and as a former divorce lawyer and 5-year divorced mother of adult boys, I daily observe their sadness at their father's willingness to create an entirely new life of which they are not a part. If they did not each make the effort to maintain contact with him, I suspect by now it would have reduced to occasional cards when he can be bothered to remember their birthdays.

One of our sons has just had his first longed-for child and I am sad that this new little person will barely know one of his grandparents, and sorry for my former husband of what he will be missing.

I think the older generation of fathers are far less good at parenting than their younger successors.

Sue, London,

As someone who has a shared care arrangement with his child and has always been 'involved' (such an uncomfortably loaded word), the above depiction is of your standard Mother wins all scenario re contact and residence and Dad taking the crumbs off the table. Leaving aside the defeatist attitude, some of the tips are almost laughable and I can only hope that someone out there benefits from the knowledge that a washing machine is important and that dirty/soiled clothes ought to be washed as soon as possible. There is after all a bell curve so inevitably a child somewhere has benefited from such pearls of wisdom.

For the vast majority of normal in the middle bell-curvers, this much of this is obvious and doesn't really add to some of the other more informative books such as For The Sake of the Children by Families Need Fathers to mention just one. Despite by criticism any support available for fathers who have to struggle with little or no support is better than nothing.

Gavin, London,

Totally ignores the central issue. How come its possible to a parent to 'choose' to put some hundreds of miles between the children and the other parent? Come on! this is just a very selfish (and common) tactic to estrange the father. Also there's an even better way for father to stay involved... and thats to be the primary carer of the children. I work full time, and have made many compromises in my work to be the primary carer. I feel very lucky and have built very strong relationships with my children. Being a father should not equal being estranged.

Dave, Camberley, Surrey

This Dad is one of the lucky ones. Unfortunately a lot of Fathers are too shellshocked by false allegations of domestic violence, rape and child abuse to maintain anything like a decent relationship with their children.

In my experience as a second wife, full time stepmother, advocate for fathers rights and law student, this guide follows the naive assumption that your ex is going to play fair.

My advice on hearing that your wife wants a divorce would not to be to buy this book, it would be to stay in your house, be as civil as possible, don't discuss any financial details until you have resolved in writing how often you are going to see the children then buy yourself a membership of Familes need Fathers.( A charity that promotes shared parenting and who advocate contact between both sexes.)

As my husband says after his long battle to get joint residency- I gave my house, contents and car away I did not give away my
children.

Claire, Cwmbran, South Wales

I can't help questioning that love your children it top tip number 10 - surely it shold be number one?

Laura Smith, Leatherhead, England

Divorce isn't good for anyone, especially the children. YOU may be happier not living with your ex, but I can guarantee you that the children are not happier or better off in a home without both parents. Sure, you can make the best of that situation, but you shouldn't even pretend that somehow it is just as good, or better, as being an intact family. I can tell you from both sides of the coin, divorce takes a huge toll on everyone in the family.

Jennifer, Chandler, USA

I had a fairly amicable and civilised divorce, but have to say that if I hadn't spent the first 3 post split years in the same country as my ex, I doubt he would have been able to form a bond with his daughter at all. It is a sad truism that many fathers don't have an active relationship with their children till the marriage breaks down but it is also true that for dads who really want it, the split can be a positive driver in their relationships with their children as they learn to appreciate the extent of the “mothering” duties formerly handled solely by their partner and devise their own ways of not being a ‘passive’ parent.

E Morrison, Cheshire, UK

Wow , great advice i also know the pain of handing the kids back, and the drip fed comment is spot on.

Dads do most of the time get a raw deal when it comes to divorce, i am constantly amazed at the "tricks" that i have to perform in order to gain access to my kids. I have also contemplated many times not seeing the lids as much as it is too painful.

Lets hope things change over the next 10 years or so and Dads who are so often the ones who come out of the whole divorce process demoralised get more recognition of their rights as fathers.

Darren, London,

I am certainly glad that Simon's relationship with his children has and is working out. However,I would not agree that that type of situation makes a better father child relationship.My own personal relationship with my daughter, if in fact there is any relationship left, has been completely tainted by my ex-wife's obsession to control all aspects,material, emotional and otherwise of our daughter.In the years prior to and after the divorce I bent over backwards to be a balanced father and create opportunity for my child. Did it create a better relationship,No!
What isn't being mentioned here in this article is that regardless of all effort, if you don't have an ex that is prepared to work with you (and why would she, that's the reason for the divorce in the first place!), then all you efforts will go for nothing since the mother, who has the physical custody will use whatever emotional tricks she can to protect what she feels is her territory.
It can never be a winning situation, never

Gregory, Pasadena , California

"The only way that really works is for the father and mother in a monogamous relationship bringing up the children in a loving stable family. l dont believe any thing less than that will bring about children who wll grow up to be responsible adults useful to society."- Virginia, Australia

There are plenty of children who have grown up to be responsible and 'normal' adults without the mother/father unit. And to suggest that such a unit is the only way that really works is generalising the issue. Sometimes it can do far more harm to children if parents do stay together when, for example, they constantly argue. Each family has to be looked at individually.

Beyond that, it's good to finally see some solid and practical advice offered to divorced fathers. Judging by the article, I'm sure the book will be an interesting and enlightening read.

Louise, Liverpool,

This article totally misses the point here. In a divorce situation Dad should have the SAME/EQUAL access to his children as Mom.

Moms and Dads both would be less stressed out when they fulfil their parental roles.

The interference of the courts will not permit this <------ there is the book that needs to be written!

carol maitlen, des moines , ia

I have recently been informed that my daughter is being moved over 3 hours a way from me, her school friends and family.

I have no rights and the ex is doing her utmost to destroy my relationship with my daughter.

We need a prime minister or high power minister to go through a divorce and see things like we do. perhaps then dads like myself may have more hope of being 'divorced dads', as discussed above, in the future.

simon , swansea, wales

Gimme a break. I've worked with many if not most of the most well known fathers help groups in this country for over 10 years
This book simply re-issues old advice and is nothing new. We could all write inane books about our own ‘positive and uplifting’ personal experiences but that doesn’t help the thousands of instances where such bon hommie won't wash.
Those that have a perfect break won’t need to buy it and those that have had a terrible break-up will have already tried the suggestions. IMO rather than making a buck or two, the time would be better spent on the front line actually helping those less fortunate

robert whiston, walsall, UK

There is nothing good about divorce--about the breaking up of a home. It is without a doubt the cruelest thing a parent can do to his or her child. Things are never the same after a divorce. There is no home anymore. Death is easier than divorce.

Ethel Lambert, Atlanta, Georgia

Huge sympathy for the abandoned husband, none for the abandoning one. But a split family can never be better than a happy united one.

Jane, London, UK

I think this is true to an extent, however, the types of dads who benefit from divorce only do so because they needed something to teach them a lesson - if they'd found out about teachers best friends and shoe sizes etc instead of leaving it to the wife in the first place they might still be married.

Kat, Manchester,

I am nearly divorced with two children; 8 & 4. I left everything with the mother as I did not want to take things away from the children. This was mainly furniture, toys, clothes.
Life at the moment is not friendly and the children ask a lot of awkward questions.

I am now in a new relationship, live in a rented property and have re-furnished it. When the children visit (every other weekend) it is like an adventure for them. They sleep on an airbed currently (camping) and they bring their favorite toys with them. If I buy new toys for them I let them leave them at my house so that they know I will look after them for their next visit.

My partner loves them dearly which helps and they show affection back. Again, this raises awkward questions and they seem to have adapted well. The worst of course (for all of us) is handing them back.

This has taught me to value every minute with them. I can cook better than I did when I was married, I am healthier and look after myself.

Andy, Monmouth, UK

Total and utter claptrap- Imagine the uproar if someone tried to argue women would be better off not seeing their children much. Its the same ignorant feminist bull that pervades the media these days and ignore the very real pain and suffering that many men and their children have to go through.

Chris Manlow, exeter, england

Another bbc/london times lesbian fantasy.

70 plus percent of divorced fathers lose complete contact with their children within two years of divorce.

In 94% of all divorces the woman gets the kids.

Yeah, dad can have a good time with the kids if the gov. and the x allowed him to.

joel, edinburgh, scotland

I am a 'split off' father and now have sole care of the children. In the period when matters were being decided the importance of having a home to take the children too was paramount, for either parent. The key thing is that you cannot have an effective relationship based on expensive visits to the zoo and attractions, and fast food meals. (Though I have come across no evidence that the kids tire of eating fast food, you will become bored.) In very many broken partnerships one or the other partners is bitter or destructive. Make sure you are not the one and do all you to minimise the effect of the other's bile if they are. If necessary by not having any contact with the other partner. Being neutral toward the mother/father (without a show of martyrdom) is better for the children that seeing you in conflict, surely. It is so much better for the kids if you are civilised, but consistently. Not so good if there is a flare up every few weeks.

James, London,

As a divorce coach, I consider this book to be a font of fantastic information for divorcing fathers. In the course of my work, I've been asked to help with what to buy at the supermarket, how to cook, what presents are best, what to do with the children for their weekends.

I would agree with Simon totally about the fact that the emotional heartache of not seeing the children all the time could produce a knee jerk reaction of just stopping seeing them at all. Putting the children before your pain takes strength, love and courage.

Divorce is normal in our society nowadays, it's time for the adults to show what's possible - to retain their own dignity, stop blaming and shaming and provide two loving homes for one family.

My children live with their father - through choice and for the benefit of the children at the time. I can wholeheartedly empathise with what's often seen as a male domain - although luckily I had the domestic chores under my belt already!

Jackie Walker, Edinburgh, Midlothian

Yes, of course, this is a wonderfully positive story but as, usual, the starting premise is a falsehood as it rests on a dichotomy (all good versus all bad experiences for fathers). My experience as a divorced mother (and those of many of my divorced female friends) is that another reason (not addressed in this article) that divorce may be good for some fathers is that they never really enjoyed being fathers in the sense that the article refers to and divorce is liberating from the "burden' (as my ex-spouse) put it of fatherhood. I would love him to focus totally on our only child but for the two years he was single after he left our home, he had no clue what to do with our 12 years old daughter, quickly remarried, reproduced and now hardly ever gives our fdaughter that one-on-one time, does not know her friends, and does not involve himself ever with her life in school or outside. She has to fit into his life the few times he sees her. There is this other side too!

Shalini Gupta, london, UK

I can't help wondering whether mum actually left dad to live in cornwall ....or.... did dad leave mum for his life coach partner? nevertheless this book is a great idea, but lets not forget that some of the 20% who lose contact with their kids do so because they " move on" with their new partner.

Hortensia Smythson, London, UK

Stop thinking of yourselves!! Children need their father and mother. They dont just need them for their physical, financial, emotional and social needs but most important of all their spiritual needs. The father's role is to lead the family in the Way of the Lord. The sad thing is that most fathers dont and most are not even around. In fact the new woman even says that she can have a child without a man (unknown sperm donor) and worst still is that they think they can bring up a child in a same sex relationship!!! What sort of world are we leaving our children.? The only way that really works is for the father and mother in a monogamous relationship bringing up the children in a loving stable family. l dont believe any thing less than that will bring about children who wll grow up to be responsible adults useful to society. Call me old fashion if you like but you cannot change God's intention and purpose for the human race.

Virginia, brisbane, Australia

For the MAJORITY being a divorced father is never fun, more like heartache and problems. Simon offers some practical advice, which is fine. Trying to keep things business like with the Ex for the MAJORITY it is more like the battle of the roses. As a divorced father of 3, I still would not wish it on my worst enemy. It was through sheer effort, patience and love that I still have a strong loving relationship with my 3 now adult children. It was not easy, but behaving like a responsible parent, understanding that the children are hurt, their rebellion may be part of those hurt helps. Reinforcing your love even when its thrown back in your face and continuing to make contact even if its a postcard works its way through in the end. My daughter didn’t speak to me for 1 year, now we’re the best of friends. For me a solid relationship with ones children is based on love, understanding and behaving like a responsible parent is essential, whether one is married, single or divorced.

Mark Harris, Swansea, Wales

I really wish my daughter's father was just as interested. I agree that where possible, both parents should have time with the children, I have tried hard to encourage his involvement, but even when he lived just around the corner, he really wasn't interested. To her it looks great, she could go and visit just when she wanted and he was all smiles for her. But she couldn't stay unless it was pre-arranged and not too frequently either! I did offer to let her live with him some days of the week, he had the room, but he didn't want to know.

I am so glad that there are many men out there who actually want to be part of their children's lives. Articles that let them know things they may not want to ask their ex's is great and the children must benefit enormously.

KAS, Bedford, UK

Unfortunately there are very few lucky children like the ones in this article. The government now admit that there are three million children, not living with both biological parents and over a million having no contact at all with their non resident parent.

In my support work with the Child and Parent Alliance, the numbers of fathers desperate for help reflects this situation.
Each day I have increased numbers asking how they can combat the minefield of the family court system directed by uncaring professionals and unsympathetic judges working in secrecy.

Only the adoption of the legal status of shared parenting will help reduce the misery of children trapped in the battles over the resident parent's refusal to allow unrestricted contact.

Chris Hawkins, Bristol, England

Definitely some good advice and in parts it mirrors my own experience with my children. Certainly the rule about focusing entirely on the children when they are with you is an important one and something I try to follow, having regular activities like riding lessons or clubs to attend is also an important part of contact time with my children and gives them something to look forward to especially as they hit those teenage years and have other distractions. As I prepare the packing list for next weeks holiday in the Dordogne I wish I could remember their shoe size to see if last years flip flops will still fit, I expect the answer will be no.

R Smith, Northampton, UK

Much to my surprise, my post divorce life has quickly brought me a better quality of life and greater prosperity.

However, this has brought a corresponding amount of resentment from my ex and I certainly don't have my finger on the family pulse. I really don't see how divorce can make you a better father.

Mark Laycock, Bradford,

Divorce is good for fathers. It relieves them of the toil of parenting, the dentist, the shoeshops, appointments at the doctor, bed wetting, childhood anxieties. It leaves them free to think, write and earn money which may be spent on the children. Divorce is not good for families or mothers.

JFLEMING, Whittlesey, Cambs, UK

This article has touched me to the core.
I know the pain and anguish of 7.00 pm on Sunday evening, the dropping off at the airport for a family holiday that you will not be part of, the awkward moment at school assembly when your child doesn't know which parent to run to.
It probably was a major contributory factor in a catastrophic breakdown for me which has resulted in a protracted physical absence from my children for me and changed my life beyond recognition.
I respect Families Need Fathers because they have at least highlighted this problem. Family Law needs to be reformed so that the presumption of parental equality is stated to be equal first with that of the best interests of the child.
Simon should be invited by the Law Commission to help reform The Children Act so that frameworks such as he has succeeded in creating can be more the norm. The 'popular view' is not entirely wrong. Believe me.

Mchael, Wuhan, P R China

The wonderful world of the divorced father.You had best wake up and smell the coffee.Pay the bills and stay out of the way.That's how the system is set up and to try to alter it in any way will only cause you problems.You are trying to play poker in a game where you weren't dealt any cards.If you try to buck this system,your ex and the courts will hammer on you until you have nothing left.Pay the bills the court decides on and stay out of the way.That's your only option.

ron, toronto,

No mention of children a man's new partner may well bring with her. It's hard for the man to just ignore them when he lives with them for most of the week!

Dan Baynes, Barton Seagrave,

good thinking practical stuff your children can also be encouraged to bring their own friends to visit with them and boys should be brought up to be boys and not genderless as seems to be the rage nowadays.
you need also to prioritise your decreasing funds as air travel can be very expensive.
the real problem comes when their homework sports activities team fixtures etc and the newest live-in "uncle" force them to make choices as they grow older and you still have to help them to become persons who make their own choices from a position of being outside the day to day cocoon
john d f nice france

john d forster, nice, france

All of this presumes that one has some access to his children.

In my case, the Norwegian mother of my son denied me this access. I pursued the matter through the Norwegian legal system to the very highest level. Nothing happened - just some lawyers made a lot of money out of me.

I did not have access to him between the ages of 4 and 15. By the time he was 15, he had no memories of me and treated me as a total stranger. Now, he is 16 and never contacts me or responds to my messages.

I have a new family and 2 lovely young daughters. If I had not tried to continue with life, I would have become possibly a street-person by now.

Alfred, Ryde, Isle of Wight, UK

I'm a psychiatrist and twice divorced against my wishes father of now four young successful adult children. As divorce goes, mine were amicably settled out of court with both sides very satisfied with the financial and custody arrangements. Nevertheless the children and I suffered the loss that emotional magical connection with happens with a loving father involved in their daily lives in an intact marriage. This article offers some sound practical advice but its underlying premise divorce "can make (the father child relationship) better" is utter nonsense.

Mark Klein, M.D., Oakland, California