Penny Wark
Win Sky+HD for a year and a trip to Barcelona
This is a snapshot of how teenage boys live in inner-city Britain. A 14-year-old stands above an underpass and throws stones at the cars below: “Just to get the chase, just to get the thrill.” A 16-year-old with a troubled face says this: “I didn’t like showing I was nice inside because it would make me out to be some soft person. It’s not about being hard, it’s about acting hard.” An 18-year-old has grown up with one overwhelming thought: “You just get into the idea, I’m never going to do nothing in my life, so why should I bother?”
No, these are not middle-class boys who expect to become doctors and lawyers and rich City people, they are boys who failed at school and they hail from deprived areas where the only achievers are drug dealers. They are also white, and while this may confound the middle-class assumption that low achievers are likely to be black, this makes them typical. Overwhelmingly, say Professor Robert Cassen and Dr Geeta Kingdon in their report Tackling Low Educational Achievement, it is white boys who fail in Britain. Remove the middle classes from the equation, look just at children from deprived areas, and more than three-quarters of low achievers are white, British and male.
They are visible at the age of 3, Cassen says. “The child from a professional middle-class home hears 1,500 different words a day. Aworking-class child hears 500. They don’t recover because we don’t have an equalising education system.”
That is one view. In recent weeks I’ve spoken to 20 white boys aged 13 to 25. All have underachieved, some to the extent that their lives have been at risk, though many are starting to work towards their potential because they are now in a system where support is available. I’ve also spoken to as many professionals who work with them. The questions are obvious: why do these boys fail, and what can be done to help them? How can we interrupt the cycle of deprivation, chaos and despair that is set to brand another generation as no-hopers with no future?
The answer to the first question is hard to pin down without resorting to Little Britain clichés about feckless single mothers, though it is clear that this debate is not about education but rooted in emotional welfare. Let’s start with the view from the street.
Dom is 16, bright, and he writes poetry and cooks a mean chicken roulade. He likes to talk and can see the big picture. As he is currently a resident of Aycliffe Secure Services, a children’s home near Darlington (thanks to a conviction for arson with intent to endanger life, his seventh offence), I make a convenient captive audience. This is his story.
Until he was 10 he was top of his class. Then his stepdad started to abuse his sister sexually and to hit Dom and his mam. Dom got into fights, was an alcoholic by 12, smoked weed and took pills. He was expelled from school, went to live with his dad on an estate in Leeds, got into trouble over drinking and fighting, and remembers finding a heroin addict sleeping in the place where you put the rubbish. Often. His dad beat him and threw him out. He was homeless for six months and, finding himself in a situation where no one was in charge of him, took charge himself by doing burglaries to get money. Back at his mam’s, he lasted five weeks in the next school. And so on.
“My mam is a star. I quite like being the centre of attention . . . My friends are one of the most important things to me . . . I think my mam thought I was going to fail. I know my dad did. He was shocked when I told him I was doing quite good here . . . I don’t think schools are making it exciting. Being excluded was great. I was only 13. Police couldn’t do nothing . . . I reckon money’s a big part of it. If your mam and dad are saying ‘I don’t want ’owt to do with you’, then it’s like, I’ve got no money. I’m too young to get a job. Then you get into the wrong group of mates, some of them with habits to feed. You never hear about kids who are doing bad stuff achieving. It’s not something kids are interested in. There are role models, and the type of things your friends are into influences you. I’ve heard people say, ‘I’ve shot this person’.”
This is said with no sense of drama because, on the estate Dom knows, shooting people is unremarkable. He is touching on many of the themes that crop up in conversations with these boys: loyalty to a single-parent mother who has offered no guidance or structure, low self-esteem, an absent father, no male role models other than gang leaders and drug dealers, peer pressure, low expectations and even an assumption of failure, truancy, a belief that schools are at fault for failing to offer exciting education, and exclusion, which, without careful management, tips boys on to the streets. There’s more: ambiguous discipline, or none at all, and from that a failure to recognise the connection between cause and effect, until, as with Dom, there is intervention that enables him to understand what has happened to him with a piercing and poignant maturity.
“There’s no respect for the community, just respect between friends . . . There’s no discipline from when you’re born. I reckon it’s about the no-smacking rule. How else are you supposed to discipline them? My mam couldn’t discipline me and there was no one else so I thought I was top dog. I don’t agree with people who say you can’t do anything.
You’ve just got to try. If you give up on kids they’re going to give up on themselves.”
Gill Palin is Aycliffe’s manager. “What we see is children with no structure being allowed to do what they want because mam’s too busy to control them,” she says. “It’s about parenting. The majority of the children in here – their parents have never said ‘no’ to them. There are mental health problems, domestic violence, alcohol problems, substance misuse, unemployment and this is happening to second and third generations. The parents have never asked for support, or if they’ve asked they haven’t got it.”
At 25, Adam has had most of the experiences a parent would want their child to avoid: heroin addiction, alcohol problems, prison, homelessness. He spent six months sleeping under a car park in Birmingham. He’s the oldest of five children who have different fathers, he’s had a lot of stepdads and he doesn’t know the man who he calls his sperm donor, though he’s seen him on the estate. He has two children by an ex-wife. He is tinged with sadness and finds it hard to believe in himself. He has worked, in a factory, because that’s where his careers teacher told him he was heading, as a brickie, a warehouse supervisor, a window fitter, but he knows that he has people skills and wants to get into youth work. He says, he could have got A*s at GSCE, but he didn’t go to school much because it was boring. When did he first realise he was good at something?
“A few months ago. I’m bright but I don’t seem to use it. I’ve adapted. I’ve had to fit in to get along. A few friends are still in prison. In and out. In and out. You wear it like a badge thinking, I can’t do this because of what I’ve done. People are telling you you’ll always be an alcoholic, a drug addict. It’s like when you were in school and they said you’ll be useless. That’s not encouraging. There was no guidance and if you’re not getting that at home . . . School should be more fun.”
It’s often said that there is an antieducation culture among boys, that it’s not cool to be seen to do well at school. None of the boys I spoke to recognises this, though their replies tend to bear it out. “It’s where you’re from more than anything,” Adam says. “Once you get in that in-crowd you’re like sheep, you just follow what everyone else does. I was always messing around. Where I lived it was all single parents in council houses. The dads aren’t paying any child support, they beat the mams. You can see there’s nothing for you.”
Not all the underachieving white boys I spoke to were from single-parent families, or had engaged with crime. Some were the quiet ones you can imagine slipping through the school system without attracting attention. Some, such as Lee McConville, 22, who was mentored by my colleague Phil Webster earlier this year and is now working on becoming a TV journalist, have two loving parents, which is probably why Lee finds himself the sole survivor of a group of friends who are either dead or in prison. “You’ve got parents telling you you need to go to school, but a lot of kids have got a problem with authority. So teachers telling them what to do makes them worse. There’s so many distractions. You just want to join in because you want a laugh as well. It wasn’t that you didn’t want to work, you just didn’t think about it. I never did the bad stuff, more like putting windows through. My mum used to cry, she thinks it was bad parenting. I tried to explain it’s not her, it’s me. In deprived areas there’s a big black cloud hanging over everyone who’s trying to make it. There’s lack of support, there’s nothing to do, that’s why you hang round on the streets. I was a cheeky kid, then my attitude did change at 14 – look at me, you can’t touch me.”
Dave and Jeanette McConville live in a Victorian terraced house that belongs to a housing association in Lozells, Birmingham. Most of the shootings and stabbings you hear about on the telly are within a mile radius, Jeanette says. She didn’t go to school because her dad hit her and the bruises embarrassed her. She was pregnant at 16 and, like her husband, she is unemployed. She is forthright but probably not as tough as she sounds. The messages are mixed. “Lee seemed to build an anger. We don’t know where it came from. It’s peer pressure. Kids want everything but they don’t want to work for it. Most of the kids round here are drug dealers . . . As far as I’m concerned once the kids are in uniform the school’s responsible.”
Dave says that Lee has never liked discipline. “I think he just wanted to be free.” Why do they think he has a problem with authority? “There’s no discipline at school.”
Later they admit that they are soft on their kids. Dave: “She’d send me upstairs to give them a slap and we’d all end up laughing. We love our kids.”
There is a pattern to these conversations. Parents who are themselves poorly educated and low achievers seem unable to provide structure or boundaries. Admittedly, this is not an easy thing to do, but the prevailing culture seems to be a moral vacuum in which responsibility lies elsewhere. Neither do these parents understand how to negotiate the school system, or have experience of making progress. Their own negative experiences have left them feeling unmotivated, their children pick up on that and, once they start to fail, they become accustomed to failure, says Steve Belcher, an outreach development worker at the Birmingham branch of Fairbridge, the charity that has helped Adam and Lee to understand that they have a future.
“If young people are labelled as failures, they’ll learn to fail and reach a point where they don’t know how to succeed. There’s often a catalyst that causes change. They lose a parent or a grandparent, that causes them to do things differently, they lose confidence and motivation. They look for blame and they say, ‘I come from a bad area, I go to a crap school, the teachers say I’m thick, my mum and dad say I’m useless’. Once they’ve got the label they keep it.”
The easiest way to counter that low self-esteem and lack of belonging is to latch on to street culture where boys readily find more credibility than from performing at school. This is why they tell you that it’s their friends who matter most to them. At no stage is there a sense that they have any choice; that concept is for the privileged classes.
The other thread that runs through this debate is the use of words such as excitement and fun. School is failing them because it isn’t exciting. Naughty stuff – many lads use these coy words to refer to crime – may be a matter of economic necessity, but sometimes it is done for a thrill. Where does that come from? Neil Ezard, assistant head in education at Aycliffe, is one of many professionals who note that these boys learn language from screens rather than from people, and that accustoms them to instant gratification.
“The role model in their own homes is usually grandma or mum or auntie. The male role model – the key element in forming a young boy’s impression of who they’re supposed to be – can come from a hero in a video game or an action adventure, which tends to be violent and which tends not to include good relationships with women. So the only thing that they value is fun and excitement associated with their role model. Some of the things they do are because of a lack of understanding that what they do to other people is real and has a devastating effect on their lives. You do despair.” Over the past decade Camila Batmanghelidjh has offered support to vulnerable children and young people through the charity she founded, Kids Company. “The biggest barrier to learning is the emotional state in which you come to the classroom, and that depends on whether you have had a robust attachment figure in your life,” she says. “If you don’t have that, a great deal of energy goes on just piecing yourself together every day, let alone navigating a learning task.”
Batmanghelidjh refers to all failing children. Yet we know that girls consistently do better at school than boys. Why? It is generally accepted that girls are more likely to have female role models within their families, and that they are more suited than edgy rumbustious boys to an education system that rewards diligence. But what about specific ethnic groups? For all the white boys’ lack of education they have acute antennae about perceptions of racism, which makes them uneasy discussing this, though Dom observes that “the majority of white people will be alcoholics and there won’t be many black or Asian alcoholics.”
Lee suspects that the respect for adults that has evaporated from many white families is alive in their black counterparts. “I think black people have more respect for their parents because they have to, their parents are probably stricter. Asian communities are strong because of religion.”
Some professionals are uncomfortable making ethnic distinctions, but those who are prepared to do so agree that black and Asian families offer more structure and discipline and that their communities offer the sense of belonging that poor white boys struggle to find.
At Fairbridge, Steve Belcher and his colleague Philip Rattigan believe that white boys lack a sense of cultural identity. “The sense of community around the black and Asian minority groups is stronger than for the white British lad,” says Rattigan, a development tutor. “Both the social community and the religious community. A young black lad who hasn’t got his father around will still have a male role model within the church or the youth centre or the community.”
Belcher talks of a sense of belonging in nonwhite communities. “Black kids are proud to be black, Asian kids are proud to be Indian or Pakistani. There’s not a lot of cultural identity for white Anglo-Saxon males.”
Several head teachers in inner-city schools tell me that, in their experience, white boys are more likely to play truant than boys from other ethnic groups. One believes that single mothers collude in truancy because they like to have a male around for company and to do shopping and odd jobs – even if he is at primary school.
In southeast London, Caralyn Betts, head of school links at Lewisham College, agrees. “There’s little sense of identity for white males. They’re often lacking a father figure, there’s a poor work record in the family, there’s no sense of people achieving and their learning needs are masked by poor attendance. There’s a sense of strong identity among ethnic minority groups. White boys are isolated.”
Breaking the cycle of failure and despair isn’t easy because, as one teacher said, these are hard-to-reach boys with hard-to-reach parents. The Government has tried through its Sure Start programme, but the consensus among those who work with failing boys is that it succeeds for families capable of finding it, but is failing to reach those who need it most.
“The centres need to be in the sink estates, we need joined-up agency work with health and social care in schools,” says Gill Palin, at Aycliffe.
This understanding – that professionals have to find these families, rather than expect families to find help themselves – is behind the success of School-Home Support, a charity that places specialist workers in schools with the aim of reaching the parents of failing and unhappy children and offering practical and emotional support, and parenting classes. SHS workers operate with care, subtlety and absolutely no coercion, they build trust and facilitate friendships and their tactics work, but as the schools have to find their salaries, funding remains a problem.
Fairbridge recruits vulnerable young people through agencies that work with them, including hostels, and uses confidence-building tasks and mentoring to reverse their expectations. Lewisham College offers vocational training peppered with accessible male role models, many of whom come from similar backgrounds to the boys they teach.
So there are models of good remedial practice that offer hope not just to failing white boys but to all children and young people at risk of becoming dysfunctional adults. The most imaginative work I saw was at Francis Bacon Maths and Computing College, a former grammar school that draws its intake – many disadvantaged – from estates near St Albans. To reverse falling rolls, the school has raised its GCSE A-C pass rate from 41 to 47 per cent over the past two years, and closed the gap between boys and girls from 25 to 8 per cent. This coincides with two initiatives designed to raise boys’ achievement.
The first is a series of “dads and lads” evenings for boys and an adult male role model. They are given an activity – such as building a barbecue – that they carry out as a team, they are fed and there is lots of bonding. David Graham, the deputy head teacher, remembers a conversation between an absent dad who said that his only involvement with his son was ripping him apart when he failed, and another dad who said he discussed his son’s progress with his wife and boy. “I’m getting it really wrong,” the first dad said. He now sees his son three times a week.
The other programme is called Bugs – Boys Underachievement Group. Boys identified as needing extra support at the end of Year 7 are offered a weekly class, and a star-chart system that applies to all their activities, and rewards good behaviour, attitude as well as learning and leads to prizes. How do you sell this to the boys, I ask Sonia Turner, who runs the scheme. “I tell them I want them to help me debug the school,” she says. “Boys learn more through hands-on learning, if it’s made exciting and if there’s competition.”
This year’s new Bugs swing in their chairs and have trouble concentrating, but with two teachers and in a group of eight they are engaged by the task of designing a school garden and it’s obvious that they enjoy the attention and the sense of belonging that comes with their Bug status.
Then I meet a group of older boys, two of them former Bugs, who can only be described as mature, positive and happy. I know that schools like to wheel out their successes, but this session is remarkable and moving because of the respect that they show each other and their teachers. They have a sense of responsibility, which is hard to nurture in children who may not always have had a stable, caring adults in their lives. These are their words.
Ashley: “My behaviour was going wrong because I wasn’t seeing my dad. I have anger and I lash out. Being part of Bugs I feel comfortable to talk to people about my anger. You don’t need to keep it inside.”
Jamie: “When you go to Lads and Dads it makes you feel a lot prouder of yourself, like you can do it. You knock yourself before. It’s proof.”
Jeron: “I used to walk out of classes, now I just let things go. With Bugs you get friends a lot easier and you’re not scared to ask like a proper smart person. You’re thinking, ‘it’s my life now’. It makes you proud.”
Jack: “We were all over the place a couple of years ago. We’re all together now, helping each other. There’s an impression that if you’re good at school, you’re not popular. Who needs popularity when you’re going to do something with your life? Since we’ve been doing this – yey! – we’ve been achieving more. It’s having somewhere where you know someone is going to support you.”
*Dom’s name has been changed
Explore your passion for food with the delights of Thai, Indian & Chinese cooking
In our new series, Tony Hawks takes a dry, wry look at modern life - junk mail, interminable meetings and snooty sales assistants
Read the training tips and advice that helped our London Triathletes
Read our exclusive 100 Years of Fleming and Bond interactive timeline, packed with original Times articles and reviews
The latest travel news plus the best hotels and gadgets for business travellers
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles
2007
£30,000
2006
£14,337
2008
£39,937
Great car insurance deals online
Margaret Stoll, Rochford, Essex, England
Boys from poorer areas often see that better facilities are given to minorities, whether they are immigrants of first, second or even third generations.
What a load of twoddle! I am a â2nd generationâ African Caribbean and I can assure you that none of us have been given any kind of âleg upâ at the expense of whites. I am 38 years old and born in the east end of London. In the old days white lads from the docks had ready jobs to work into after leaving schools from printing to the docks. Most of the black lads in my working class school either went to college, or ended up on the dole. The types of jobs that existed prior to 1985 for working class lads, were passed down from generation to generation, often âethnicsâ did not get a look in. those of us who took advantage of further education, were better equipped to cope in the new service and IT led economies of the John Major years. Also in the time the workplace became more âfeminisedâ so our communication and interpersonal skills adapted to this skills set. âback in the dayâ we resented the fact that ready jobs were not available to us but that was history. In the 70s/80s we went to schools were a purely British âEurocentricâ agenda was followed, not a problem but Christopher Columbus did not âdiscoverâ the Americas.
How can so called English culture be downgraded when its around us everyday? I donât ever remember black people calling for Englishness to be downgraded.
funkg, london, uk
Jack Black, London, Britain.
The soon to be dumbed-down were stuck in the comprehensive schools alongside the illiterate alien, whom teacher would always, naturally, devote more time to.
Erm Jack.
I donât know why I bother on these post but the idea that after the war teachers at school had to teach âilliterate aliensâ is not even worth responding too. If you knew anything about British history, you will realize that most of us my father included came from countries that were part of the British empire, whose curriculum was the SAME as the English. My father came from the Caribbean middle class to study in 1951 at what was then borough polytechnic, illiterate? Donât make me laugh. My step father can recount many stories of supporting some white working classes who were illiterate in the 60s and there were many. Like today many working classes imagined blacks and Asians living in jungles, having little sense of the British empire or a sense of geography. Although the British empire spanned the globe, very few people in Britain had a grasp of its brevity or workings. Those black children who went to school in the late 1940s onwards will tell you that no way did they have a leg up from teachers in fact it was the other way myself included but I bear no grudges.
funkg, london, uk
This is the product of our current national model.
Greedy self serving politicians who have neither loyalty or affection for our country and the politically correct liberal left with their socialist agenda.
We have a subjugated, cowed and politicised police force, a liberal and totally ineffective prison regime, the compensation culture and limitless immigration that robs a child of his nationality, culture, history and pride.
The fact that 400,000 decent, caring and capable citizens are being forced to flee the country every year is devastatingly demoralising.
That coupled with an education system where teachers have no authority and a curriculum designed to rob a child of his identity, competitiveness and discipline provides a potent cocktail for disaster on a grand scale.
The people that are enforcing this system are few, but they do dominate the TV media. They will take some removing but it has to be done and a fresh start made.
I believe that the will to do it is emerging among the English, they just need to recognise that the ballot box is a powerful weapon and that they need to use it to replace the current corrosive cartels with patriotic nationals.
If we look at the Islamic model we see youths that respect their family and friends, value an education, are hard working and have been bought up to value their nationality, religion and culture above all others.
Some are willing to blow themselves apart for these ideals.
These are the two extremes and neither are pretty, perhaps we need to build a model somewhere between the two. Maybe there are lessons to be learned from other cultures after all.
fred forsythe (not the), Worcestershire , ENGLAND
Why is it that when someone identifies a problem area in this country it's the fault of immgration/multiculturism?
African and asian families come from countries were governments do not give a toss about family or it's people. The strong cummunity spirit, the strong family structure, etc comes from living in countries were if you donot strive to survive you perish. Some of the key ingredients to survival are, stong family structure and strong comunity. Religion plays a central role in all of this. This country has destroyed all of this and we did that without help from immigrants.
dylan powel, Leeds,
"They are also white, and while this may confound the middle-class assumption that low achievers are likely to be black, this makes them typical."
This is somewhat peculiar. Is this really a "middle-class assumption"? It's not one I recognise. "Blacks are [more] likely to be low achievers" is possibly more likely a "middle-class assumption", but I canât say that I recognise that either.
"Overwhelmingly, say Professor Robert Cassen and Dr Geeta Kingdon in their report Tackling Low Educational Achievement, it is white boys who fail in Britain. Remove the middle classes from the equation, look just at children from deprived areas, and more than three-quarters of low achievers are white, British and male."
Perhaps, but given we're talking about country in which 92% of the population are white, itâs difficult to see precisely what point is being made.
An interesting article, all the same.
Ed, Valencia, Spain
This may be kicking over a hornets nest but here goes; Feminism is a big part of the problem. Not the part that says women should have equal opportunity but the part that says boys and girls can be socialized to be the same. They can't be. Removing structure and discipline from the growth of boys, (whatever their ethnicity) doesn't make sensitive, caring, nuturing men, it makes aggressive, self centered, amoral bullies. As a former boy myself I can attest to this first hand. As a former marine drill instructor I saw hundreds of boys join the marines seeking what society told them they should not be. They were good kids at heart, and the vast majority of them benefitted and matured from their military experience. I am not advocating military conscription to cure social ills. But when boys are put in a challenging disciplined environment with positive role models and a chance to prove themselves they generally respond well to it and become the men we need them to be.
Joe Thornton, Warrenton VA, USA
âBlack kids are proud to be black, Asian kids are proud to be Indian or Pakistani. Thereâs not a lot of cultural identity for white Anglo-Saxon males.â
The authorities have been at pains to ensure this for over 40 years. To suggest that a white kid, and especially an English white kid, should think otherwise isn't just frowned upon, it is actually criminalised.
Paul Finlow-Bates, Derby,
Mary, Pittsburgh , USA, very sagacious and true words have yeah spake.
silas, foster city, California, USA
"Congratulations" on bringing this neglected area of British society to light. Britain spends x amount of money trying to improve the life of its new immigrants - which is commendable, but at the loss of forgetting our own kids! This is shameful...The government needs to spend TIME and money on these deprived members of our once loved nation... Gordon Brown has started something re: Keeping kids in school until they are 18? I'm not sure if that's locking the door after the horse has bolted - but it's a start. What can parents do to help? (1) Don't divorce, (2) Introduce religion in to their children's lives - yes, it won't kill you! (3) Keep an eye open for vandals - like a neighborhood watch. (4) Report on other people's kids if they look as if they need help - no, it's not spying - they do this all the time in Central America and they don't have half the amount of crime as Britain - per ratio. (5) Bring good values back in to the picture - openly condemn low life.
pat, FL, USA/ExPat,
I believe this what Kubrik was probably getting out with Clockwork Orange, it's funny how the genius's of the past have predicted the future so alrmingly accuratley. Other examples like 1984 ring alarmingly true( more cctv then any country around the world , ID cards a reality, our social liberties taken away from us in the name of war ) Anyway I digess.
Anyway this is already spilling over into middle class area's and when it does more and more then instaed of tackling the social problem the same old tired words will be spoken lack of jails terrible youths blah blah blah.,blame the parents.
The real problem is social and ingrained now so deepley that in my opinion they will never turn this it will get worse and worse mark my word.
It wont also matter who is in power tories, lib dems or labour the problem will still snowball. Please someone with some life experience and a few PHD's start a party called the NO-Politics Party this country might get somewhere then.
Matzi, reading,
Well, these are Labour voters so who won't go anywhere else, so don't expect Gordon Brown and his cronies to lift a finger. This welfare dependency is something that Gordon has tried very hard to establish, so he must be very satisfied to read that it's performing exactly as planned.
Doug, Glasgow,
Jerry, London.... well said.
Expanding on your comments on the old apprenticeship system, it did more than teach people skills For working class boys it taught them to be men.
A boy would leave school and be thrown in with men in a working enviroment, any strops or bad attitude would not be tolerated,he would be given the lowest job, making the tea, tidying up and all progression would only come as he earn't the respect of his collegues.
With no parents or teacher to go to he would learn how to take a joke and what was exceptable to give back, the values and the morals of older and wiser men would be forced onto a younger man and at the end of five years he would complete his apprenticeship stand alongside men that saw him as an equal, as a man.
Then another boy would start...... "Hey kid, go get us the glass hammer."
Steve, Birkenhead, Merseyside
Having been one of these boys AKA Glasgow early 70's it is very sad to see the same old same old. I remeber my last year in school being taught how to fill out unemployment forms
the message being told that you are a loser. It wasn't till I got out of the UK I could see possiblities for new oppertunities. Take heart education is not everthing, these kids need someone that gives a dam and takes an interest in them i.e. time. They are street smart and that can be enough of an education in itself. I have never further my education but lead a good life, have my own buisness, cars , house, wife and kids
Martin, Philadelphia, USA
If 3 out of 4 crimes are commited by whites, then a quarter (25 %) of crimes are commited by blacks.. but since blacks represent only 10 % of the general population then black crime must be two and a half times more frequent than white crime..but more likely that blacks are over-represented in the poorer areas where failure is more likely in general
C Partington, Bordeaux, France
There is no such thing as cultural history in England relevant to these kids; England generally has a lack of commitment to multicultural views and schemes, European policies are rejected and economic stability through the Euro was thrown out. There is another article in the times this week about a motto, though I'm sure it will just centre around prosperous London!
I'm 20 and in uni and have a good enough memory of highschool. Kids turning up late, no real discipline being allowed to be applied; no aims or enjoyment in what is being taught. Which in all honesty is utter useless twaddle.
In my opinion the solution to the matter is to only give free housing and benefits to those in need of them. At 16 girls can leave school, get out of the homes they have come to hate and get funding for living costs, all through getting pregnant.
Kicking these people out of social housing will also settle the dire housing situation in the UK and maybe chavs the incentive to support their offspring.
Tom, Lytham, Lancs, england
You have the outline for a year's worth of scripts for Coronation Street, Eastenders, Emmerdale, etc.
Forget the 'equality' and 'poverty' excuses. It's quite simple: monkey see, monkey do.
Gerald Dyson, Leeds,
The BBC radio's Vanessa Feltz show has just been discussing this article and unwittingly stumbled across one of the main problems.
An immigrant Indian computer technician was agreeing that white boys are unfairly treated. He blamed political correctness and said they had no proper role models. At this point Ms Feltz could contain herself no longer. "Prince Charles is a white role model, all this white male MPs are role models" At which point the guy was cut off.
Part of the problem is that it is so difficult to discuss this problem because privileged women like Ms Feltz who dominate all the media and public sector discussions, cannot see beyond theirown sense of victimhood and that of blacks/asians which they view as idealogical allies against White Males.
B Wood, London,
editorialstaff net notes: Welfare, and the welfare housing units that destroyed America's poor during my entire life, is gutting the UK, and old Europe as well. The socialism that is destroying France, pre Sarko, will defeat him, and bring down the French people as well. We have no personal knowledge of the failure of education in UK and Europe, but here, the national teacher's union protects failed teachers, and precludes competition among schools for tax dollars, and private dollars, assuring basically a life tenure for the worst teachers, and a dismal blanket of government fueled rules and regulations to prevent hundreds of thousands of talented teachers from excelling, as that would endanger the louts who hold the union's power positions. Work-fare, the glimmering hope of decency, for all our peoples, can work, but it requires hard choices, and defeat of those political criminals who thrive on union campaign contributions extorted from those folks attempting to teach our children.
Franklin D. Lomax, Alexandria, Virginia, USA
We are reaping what started to be sown around 40 years ago, and continued to be sown by authorities on the left and right. There are a number of reasons why these kids are living a chaotic, anarchic existence, starting with the breakdown of traditional communities and family values. The liberal left have made it their life's work to undermine the very institutions that held our society together e.g. marriage, the church, school discipline, any kind of authority, believing that their multicultural, do as you want vision of the world would make for a better place, well that has brought us to where we are now.
Margaret ("there is no such thing as society")Thatcher started the destruction of the British white working class in the 80's by allowing whole swathes of British industry to go under in the cause of economic restructuring, thus pulling the economic plug from entire regions and condemning a generation of skilled workers and their future generations to a meaningless life on benefits and daytime TV. None of these catastrophic society consequences registered on the Tory radar at the time because they just didn't want to know.
When New Labour came to power in 1997, Tony Blair had 2 mantras : "education, education, education" and "tough on crime, tough on its causes". They could have both been addressed simultaneously by reinstating the old apprenticeship system which was the proven way for working class kids to gain skills, further progression and subsequent self esteem and would have gone a long way to addressing our current well documented skills shortages. Just because they may not be academic, doesn't mean they are stupid. Labour could have encouraged employers to restart apprenticeships by tax concessions, they could have been a requirement in the award of PFI contracts. But not our Tone, his idea was to put everybody through university, hardly realistic, but you wouldn't expect a privately educated barrister to understand apprenticeships would you? Besides, regenerating the British working classes might have gotten in the way of the secret agenda of multiculturism.
To put it brutally, its hard to like these kids, but its really not their fault. They and their parent(s) were dealt a lousy hand from day 1, they are the victims of decades of sell-out betrayal by politicians, academics, business leaders, and its up to these same people to fix it. Is the will there to fix it, starting with giving these kids the skills they need, and which we also need them to have?
Jerry, London,
And our response is to ASBO them, it's pathetic. A knee jerk reaction to mollifiy the middle class. So Nu Labour what's you plan?
andy, bristol,
So the most obvious cause is lack of one male and one female parent, caring for the child as well as each other. Well well, that will upset the liberals! Marriage, in spite of its difficulties, is the best way to rear children. The failure of our society to accept this, for selfish reasons, and the failure to support marriage with more financial benefits can only result in a divided society.
The fashion for single parent and homosexual marriage has failed this generation. The short term outlook from politicians on the make and selfishness from the rest of us can only result in a divided nation.
Time to think again of we really care for the young, and people in general!
Graham Herriott, Essex, Essex
<âBlack kids are proud to be black, Asian kids ...to be Indian/Pakistani...not a lot of cultural identity for white Anglo-Saxon males.â>
Well, this quote above encapsulates the start of the problem. Stop calling them 'white boys' as if their skin colour is all that matters. They are English boys, or Welsh, or Scottish. I would guess that, of those 3, the English boys have the least 'cultural identity'. Why? Because they've been robbed of it. Decades of being told that we have to be fair to every minority group that wants to come here to live. Boys from poorer areas often see that better facilities are given to minorities, whether they are immigrants of first, second or even third generations. England and the English have been denigrated. Our long and proud history is no longer taught, our literature downgraded, the language of Shakespeare on the same level as Jamaican dialect.
There are now attempts to preserve and upgrade knowledge of our cultural identity, but it's late.
Margaret Stoll, Rochford, Essex, England
This is what the PC Crowd have been after since the end of WWII. This unspoken war was specifically targeted at the working-classes. The soon to be dumbed-down were stuck in the comprehensive schools alongside the illiterate alien, whom teacher would always, naturally, devote more time to.
These were those whose culture, mores and society pop culture and the alien would destroy. The immigrant would be afforded enormous advantage over the indigenous poor as the sanctimonious, self-approving generosity of both the political and chattering classes ALWAYS favoured him.
Ethnically cleansed, rendered physically and spiritually redundant and finished off by drugs and alcohol, the feral behaviours of the newly disenfranchised were always utterly predictable.
The sufferings of the poor, white Briton began many years ago. The leafy-suburbian could have spoken up for him but, instead, chose to ignore the plight of his fellows. With no one left to protect him, it's his turn to suffer now.
Jack Black, London, Britain
Perhaps if some of them had been offered the jobs the vast number of illegal immigrants wrongly cleared by the Security Industry Authority took, then at least they'd have some future.
As it is - "British jobs for British people" ?? - what an insult!
This country came through two world wars, for this? It's an absolute disgrace.
Mr R Scott, Coventry,
The race relations industry will be hard put to dispute thi one.
About time that something was done to help our own kids instead of 'deprived' ethnic minorities.
S Forsyth, Lothian,
There was a time when three things happened at school
Discipline
white male teachers
Milk and one balanced meal a day
There has been never been a time in this country when every child was taken care of, nurtured and fed properly, this is when the school represented the only stability in a youngsters life.
Now there is an overwhelming lack of discipline, more women than men in education and the food is crap.
So we now have a situation where there has been a complete 'feminisation' of schools leading to a lack of rules and structure for boys.
Application of corporal punishment is out of the question because the quality of the teachers cannot be trusted to do the job properly
This bunch of quazi-communists and the feckless Tories have screwed the future for these kids at both ends - no education and all the jobs they can get go to immigrants.
M hunter, Mapperley,
It's revealing that after all this talk about lack of male role models, men not being there for their children etc., you put this article in "Home>Life&Style>WOMEN>families"!
I despair.
Andrew Hebb, York, UK
The statement "three quarters" is grossly misleading" not taking into account that remainder relates to much smaler populations of non-whites. It may well be the remaining one quarter percentwise in relation to total number of non-white population in discussion is different and perhaps much larger.
The poetry of anegdotal cases is deeply moving but to do anything practical we need reliable statistics.
Jurek, Rowlands Caslte, Hants, UK
Truly amazing to observe these type of articles which are published with very little fanfare but flip the coin to young black British males and then it get world coverage.
In all these type of cases there is always one common denominator: poverty, lack of education, a zero presence of role model/ mentors.
This is not a race issue but a poverty one, please lets focus on the really issues and not the supperficial ones.
silas, Foster city, California USA
Unfortunately what many poor young men, white and black lack is a responsible male figure in their lives who can teach them that being a man is not about how many girls you can impregnate, shops you can steal from, cars you can boost or drugs you can peddle. THAT is the tradegy of the sexual revolution. Sex without responsiblity. It may be fun for the affluent, but it's lead the poor down a path of even more hardship.
Mary, Pittsburgh , USA
'Black kids are proud to be black, Asian kids are proud to be Indian or Pakistani. Thereâs not a lot of cultural identity for white Anglo-Saxon males.â
So these kids, and these kids alone, are not connected to anything, even though these islands have been practically choking on native genius for the last five hundred years?
Why do we hate these children?
Richard, London, England