Interviews by Fran Abrams
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1980 ‘When I was 5, the rudest word you might say was willy or bum’
EVAN JONES, born 1980
Evan Jones is sitting in a meeting room at the firm where he works as an IT systems manager in Central London, explaining his parents’ decision to let him walk to school alone when he was 10.
“It was two minutes’ walk. It wasn’t far,” he says, almost as if he feels he needs to defend the decision. “Me and the girl next door, who was the same age, walked together. We lived on a main road, but there was a lollipop lady and we knew the rules.”
Evan, who grew up in Petts Wood in Kent, the son of an estate agent and a mother who stayed at home and did childminding as her children grew older, says his childhood was constrained by carefully drawn boundaries: “You were told the consequences of overstepping the mark, and if you did you knew what would happen. If I got in trouble at school for something like fighting, I got in trouble at home, too. There would be no Mum and Dad going up to the school to complain. I would say when I was growing up people were more respectful of adults.”
Evan joined the Boys’ Brigade when he was 5, and he is now a youth leader with the organisation, working with seven to ten-year-olds.
He thinks children are fundamentally the same as ever – but the world around them has altered.
“Kids are kids. Human nature doesn’t really change. If you’re 5 now, you’re still going to have the same needs and wants and desires. But when I was that age the rudest word you might say was ‘willy’ or ‘bum’. That was really rude.
“I remember going into the school library and getting a history book to look at naked Neanderthal people. That was the rudest thing in there. Now there seems to be a lot of sexual awareness. There are kids of 7 or 8 coming out with graphic terms and descriptions. One of them said he’d been on the internet and found this stuff.”
His own experiences help him to identify with today’s children, he feels. He can still remember his own decision to break the rules: “I was well behaved until I was 13, then I misbehaved. I think I just rebelled. I’d had enough of being a good kid all the time. Things like being disruptive in class, or after break times we would go to lessons late and carry on playing football. But by the age of 15 I realised I had GCSEs coming up and if I screwed them up I wouldn’t have good prospects.”
Before he was 14, he was drinking regularly with his friend in a local pub: “The first time, we went to a quiet pub round the back of nowhere and we got served. After that we went maybe once a week. Later we would go up to London and go to a club, and would come out of there at two or three and catch a night bus home. That was our weekend, at the age of 14, 15, 16.”
Yet somehow he kept a foot firmly in his parents’ traditional, ordered world. It never seemed to him that there was any major conflict between their expectations and the less reputable activities indulged in by modern teenagers: “Typically I would go to Boys’ Brigade on Friday night and leave to go to a party with my mates. If we went clubbing we’d come back and sleep for a couple of hours before we walked to the shop to do our paper rounds.
“After I’d done my round I’d work in the shop for a couple of hours and then I’d go to church. I didn’t have to choose; I could do both.”
1990 ‘Pressure comes from parents, but also because you have goals’
STANLEY KASUMBA, born 1990
For half an hour or so, Stanley Kasumba has been sipping Fanta and chatting about his childhood in a pizza house near his home in Enfield, North London. He seems at ease with himself – confident, articulate, charming in an unostentatious way.
Then suddenly, musing on how his life used to revolve around football in the park, the pressure of being 17 overwhelms him and a torrent of words pours out: “As I grow older I look back and I think: ‘Oh, man! Look how old I am!’
“When I was younger, everything was so happy. I remember when I was 11 and we used to play in the park, and when I was 12, the first day I walked to school. I don’t feel as joyful now. There’s always that thought: what am I going to do, why am I feeling this way? Then, I didn’t have to think about anything. I could just be free and happy.”
It would be unfair to call it angst – too strong a word perhaps, for Stanley speaks of himself as essentially a happy, optimistic person. And 17 is an age of transition for everyone. Yet time and again he comes back to this feeling that he must strive ever harder to achieve, that the stress seems greater all the time, that he must be constantly vigilant if he is to continue swimming against the tide of underachievement and temptation that has swept off some of his acquaintances.
Adolescence in London, he says, is full of choice. And while it may be easy to know which are the right choices, it’s frighteningly easy to make the wrong ones. He talks a lot about how many of his friends have “fallen off”, succumbing to drugs or alcohol, or simply giving up and drifting instead of staying in school, as he has done, and keeping their heads down. Stanley has just started his A-level courses and wants to do engineering at university. His mum, an operations manager for an Arts Council schools project, went to university; he wants to do the same.
“I think the pressure comes from your parents. But there’s also pressure on you because you have goals. There’s pressure to make it: am I going to do what I really want to do? It gets harder each year. It’s really hard. This is the make-or-break season.
“OK, university is important, but once you’re in uni, you can relax. You’re secure.” And there’s peer pressure, too, pulling the other way. “It’s very hard to make your own decisions sometimes. You think you make a decision, but really it’s been made by what your friends say and you kind of tag along. When you are young, maybe you start throwing stones and get into vandalism. When you reach 13 or 14 there are other things, mainly drug use; a lot of my friends have been swayed into doing that kind of stuff. You have to be strong and fight it. All the fingers are pointing at you. At 16 some people start getting into relationships. A lot of households have trouble with kids not coming home. Stuff like that. There are so many factors in these two years. It’s kind of crazy.”
London is a dangerous place in which to grow up, Stanley admits: “But you become streetwise. You know where not to go, and what not to do at a certain time. But yes, people will try and rob you for your phone and your money. Everybody I know has been through it at least once. I’m not a fearful person – when I’m walking the streets I’m actually quite content with myself. But once I was threatened with a knife. I said: ‘No, I’m not giving you my stuff.’ I don’t give up my things easily. I tried to walk away but they acted more aggressive, and threatened to stab me. Eventually you have to say: ‘Fine. It’s only a phone.’ I didn’t contact the police. My friends wouldn’t do that either. If those people live in the same area they might know you. Something else might happen.”
When he was younger, Stanley thinks, life was more simple, focused on home, parents, family: “You would play football and after that there would probably be a reading workshop at the library. Everything was really set. Your mother would be telling you there’s this thing you should do. At the age of maybe 8 or 9, that’s when my parents started giving me a tiny bit of freedom. Before that I wouldn’t have been out of their sight.”
He’s an only child, so he is the focus of his parents’ dreams and ambitions. But that’s only part of the picture. He thinks that these days parenting is a more intense business than maybe it used to be. “I have a close relationship with my parents, and they are very ambitious for me. I think that’s what parenting is about now. Maybe in the past parents would be preoccupied with so many things that they wouldn’t channel everything into their children. Now they put everything they have into their children, and they want them to do the best.”
Now Stanley’s social life revolves around friends, parties and clubbing, but he still feels there isn’t much he wouldn’t tell his parents:“I’ve had a happy childhood. I would say the love of my family and friends makes me happy. That’s the real relationship that makes your life. If it wasn’t for my friends and family, my childhood wouldn’t have been the same,” he says. “Life’s good.”
2000 ‘Maybe I’d like to be a Munchkin’
FLORENCE BISHOP, born 2000
Florence Bishop staggers into her family living room, almost invisible under a mass of furry animals. “This is Spike,” she says, holding up a hedgehog. Then she produces a pink pig from somewhere under her arm: “This is Messy. He likes splashing mud everywhere . . . Smile the monkey . . . and Trot the horse. Trot is really clever and he drives a bus. But my giraffe Bibble was the first. He’s very friendly.” She smiles, her initial shyness beginning to wear off.
She’s busy, now, clipping her animals – which have magnets in their paws – on to a Lego car she’s made. Will Trot be driving, then? She looks up, scornful: “No, because this is a car, not a bus.” What does she like to eat? Salami and sausages, she says. Does she eat fish and chips? Bibble, sitting on her knee now, shakes his head sadly.
“No, not all the time.” Her mum, Sarah, chips in: “What do you have to have all the time, Florence?” Florence pulls a face. “Vegetables. Bibble doesn’t like vegetables. But I have to eat them.”
In many ways Florence lives a very orderly life. On school days she leaves the house at 7.40am with her father, Gordon, and nine-year-old sister Edwina. Gordon sees them safely on to the school bus, with a mobile phone for emergencies, and by 8.30 they are deposited at the Portsmouth Grammar junior school. At the age of 7, Florence must remember which books or sports kit she needs for each lesson and must find her way to her classes, each in a different room with a different teacher. If she has a violin lesson, she must remember her instrument.
Usually she arrives home at 4.10pm – although if she has an after-school club it may be as late as 7pm – and at 6pm she sits down to tea at the kitchen table with both her parents and Edwina. She has regular homework: English and maths. On a Saturday morning she goes to school for netball practice. On a Sunday she often goes for a walk, a bike ride or a swim – always accompanied by one or both of her parents.
Life has changed for children, Sarah says, since she was born in 1966. For one thing, Sarah’s mother stayed at home to look after her, while she and Gordon both work as solicitors and run their own businesses: “Because my mother wasn’t working, she was the primary care-giver. But we have our lives set up as a shared caring arrangement. I’d say it’s 60-40 in our house. Gordon can do everything I do; I think that’s a huge shift in many families nowadays. I think kids have a much closer relationship with their parents than they had 30 or 40 years ago.”
Florence never goes out on her own. Edwina is allowed to cycle to the end of the road, and sometimes to walk back from her friend’s house about 100 yards away – although not in the dark. “I think that’s the biggest difference between her childhood and mine,” Sarah says. “I was walking to school from the age of 5 on my own. There’s more traffic on the road, and that’s a genuinely increased danger.”
Florence’s parents have made a conscious decision to ensure she has “chill time” – bouncing on her trampoline, crashed out in front of the TV or playing cards. Often she will simply potter in the garden with Gordon. She’s full of surprises, he says: “One day she got all the buckets out of the shed and hung them on the apple tree, so we had a bucket tree. There must have been almost 20 buckets in the tree.” Florence’s response is quizzical, mock-puzzled: “How else do you dry buckets?”
Suddenly she remembers Munchkin the hamster, who has been snoozing in his cage. Now the cage has to be dismantled so that Munchkin can be dislodged and brought out to sit on her knee and nibble on a monkey nut.
Father Christmas brought Munchkin the year before last, she explains: “I think Father Christmas comes down the chimney. But I don’t think he brought Munchkin down the chimney. I think he came down the chimney and opened the front door to let Munchkin in so he didn’t get hurt.” Last year’s list for Father Christmas included Littlest Pet Shop toys, Nintendo DS games and yet more friends for Bibble.
Does she know what she wants to be when she grows up? She thinks for a minute, uncertain. Then a thought strikes her and she laughs out loud: “Once me and Edwina were asking lots of questions and Dad was getting tired of it, so he said: ‘Mummy, when I grow up can I be a tree?’” She thinks some more. “Maybe I’d like to be a Munchkin.”
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