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From The Sunday Times

April 27, 2008

Men and their mothers. What's it all about?

Ask any man when he last phoned his mother, and he will pull a guilty face. Ask him when he last talked about her to his friends and he will look at you as if you are insane. Why is the mother-son relationship so complicated? To find out, our correspondent asked someone who should know – his mum

William Sutcliffe

Men are more likely to confess to a predilection for pornography than admit to a close relationship with their mother. There isn’t much left that the modern man is made to feel ashamed of, yet confessing to your friends that you sometimes call your mum for a chat is something few do. Even though a man’s mother is likely to be the second most important woman in his life, even though he may have deep feelings of love for her, this is a relationship about which men are sheepish, secretive and often outright embarrassed.

Why are men ashamed to be seen being kind to their mothers? Cultural pressure is a factor. On film or television, if you see a man talking to his mother, or (heaven forbid) listening to her advice, you are probably watching a comedy, and the conversation will be the screenwriter’s way of letting you know this is the kind of guy you can push around. But is there something more complicated at work here? And how do mothers feel about their sons’ reticence? There is only one person to ask: my mother.

I call her up. She is pleased to hear from me. Of course she is – she is my mother. When I explain why I am calling, she tells me that she is, at that moment, listening to a radio dramatisation of Anthony Powell’s A Dance to the Music of Time, in which the arch-creep Widmerpool is always talking about his mother.

“Isn’t this very hard on mothers? And unfair?” I ask her. She responds by reminding me that she is a woman as well as a mother, and every woman knows that there is something unhealthy and unattractive about a man who is too close to his mother. As a mother of boys, you know that your job is to prepare them to be handed on, she tells me. You know that you harm them by keeping them too close for too long. “I was constantly torn between not being overinvolved and not seeming indifferent,” she tells me. “It’s a hard balance to strike, and you never know when you’re getting it wrong. I still don’t know.”

I have just written a novel about adult men and their mothers, in which three women, all with childless, thirtysomething sons, persuade one another to go and visit their uncommunicative progeny, uninvited, for a week, to find out who they have become. My mother has read the book, and she says she likes it (she is my mother, so that is not saying much), but only now, on the eve of publication, have I asked her if she thinks I got it right. The book, ultimately, is rather hard on the sons. It puts forward the idea that mothers get a pretty raw deal from the men they raise. It suggests that, after all the effort women put into the first 18 years of their sons’ lives, what is subsequently given back is a pretty meagre reward.

Her initial response comes as a shock to me. Having written a book about how cruel it is that sons don’t give their mothers a second thought during their twenties, I’m now told that she didn’t give me too much thought at that time. It was, in some way, a relief, she says, to reach the “job done” stage and to be able, at last, to throw herself wholeheartedly into her work. She reminds me that if adolescence is the process by which children cut themselves loose from their parents, it also works the other way. Teenage behaviour helps parents to cut themselves loose from their children: as your children love you less, they, rather helpfully, become less lovely.

I remember the urgency with which, as a teenager and a young man, I sometimes felt the need to get away from my mother. Stupidly, I never paused to wonder if she felt a complementary urge to get away from me.

As we talk, her take on the subject softens. “All mothers feel the pain of no longer being needed, but we don’t admit to it,” she confesses eventually. “It’s not an unmixed pain, though,” she says, hiding a little behind the double negative. “You wouldn’t want it any other way.”

When I ask her why nobody admits to it, she says: “You don’t want to seem abject.” She is rather pleased with her choice of word. I ask her what she means by it, and she comes up with another. “Discarded. You know that you’ve been discarded. You passionately want your son to find the right woman, but you know that when it happens, you are cast aside.”

A psychoanalyst might have something to say about her use of the word “passionately”. Perhaps it does all come down to Oedipus after all: the mother-son relationship is a deep and intense one during childhood, but, unlike the mother-daughter bond, a specific rupture has to be made before the child can be fully adult.

This is why men don’t look cool talking about their mothers. Women – with good reason – run a mile from a man who loves his mother too much. However wonderful and adorable a man’s mother is, the slightest mention of this fact makes him look as if he has not quite grown up and, therefore, deeply unattractive. A woman who reveres her parents will make a different impression.

There is an irony in all this, of course. That the pressure to disavow our mothers might come not from fellow men, but from women – the very women who are theoretically sizing us up as the person who might, ultimately, turn them into a mother – is curious to say the least. Are men, perhaps, merely the intermediaries in an intergenerational rivalry between women?

There is, however, another phase of life that changes everything. When a man becomes a father, his mother becomes a grandmother and everything is transformed. The process of separation goes into reverse. Quite aside from all the pleasures of becoming a grandmother, my mother tells me that you also, in some way, get your son back. Sharing love for the same child and interacting in new ways around the child pulls the whole family back together.

It was only as I looked after my own baby that I gave any thought to the first three years of my own life – to the time when my mother was my universe. And as I struggled with the exhaustion of parenting, I began to get my first genuine inkling of what my mother once did for me.

It’s a little late, of course, for gratitude, but I now know that as a parent, gratitude is not really part of the equation. At the very least, I now have something meaningful to talk to my mother about on the phone. And for the first time in years, I call her relatively frequently. Even if it is just to ask her to baby-sit.

Whatever Makes You Happy by William Sutcliffe is published by Bloomsbury on May 5, priced £11

Good piece. My mum's 71, divorced, lonely. I'm single, so family dinner, not an option. So now & then I take her to dinner, a movie.

I've learnt not to refer to this - a la 'took my mum to see etc' - the remark greeted with embarrasment. Why? Today's 'maxim' idea of manhood as cold, disdainful.

Jack Jones, London,

I agree with franca. My mother has always told me to look for a man who really treats his mother well-not clingy. she was right-even 40 years ago.

yvonne, new york, ny, usa

I really enjoyed the article about men and their mothers. I totally agree with William Sutcliffe's mother and when I read her comments it actually made me feel so much better. I am 54 years old and mother of 4. I would just advise any mothers not to buy their teenagers pets (they get left behind)

charlotte mawhinney, Blunham, England

Long ago two men were pursuing me and proposing. I liked them both and the indecision turned me into a wreck. An older colleague said to me: if you want to choose the better man, choose the one who treats his mother well, for he will treat you with the same respect, warmth and consideration. true

franca, windsor, berks

"ask any man" - hardly the most promising leading comment.
most or some might apply, but not all, at all!
Get real and you might have a good article.

Chris, London, UK

The last ten years of her life, my mother lived with me and worked in my medical office daily. We were able to travel together several times a year. I had been separated for a few years and found her company and companionship most enjoyable. It was a wonderful to know her as a friend.

Hank, Houston, USA

Our son calls us every week. No matter how fast I am, my wife, his mother always gets to the 'phone first. Does this count as calling your mother? PS After everything has been said I am usually allowed to say goodbye, before the 'phone is taken over again!

T Sedman-Smith, Kidderminster,

My boyfriend will not heAr a bad word said about his motherEVER. even when she is completely wrong and is very protective of her.
My dad vistied his mother every day, took her on holidays and had her live with us in her final years.
Neither of then would think they had anythin to be ashamed of

K , Aberdeen,

Mr Sutcliffe's mother has it just right. Let them go and they may not keep in touch for a while unless they need you. If you have any sense enjoy the time for yourself. When you are a grandparent even deeper relationships are formed. I am living a happy old age spoilt by my son and his family.

Judy, Leighton Buzzard,

My mum is the most important woman in my life, she has always been there for me and I know that when I have a problem she is the person I turn to for advice. I speak to her every day, by my own choice because I want her to know i still care and that she knows I am ok. I would be lost without her.

Joe, Surrey, UK

i try to stay as far away from my mother as i possibly can
simple as that

kirk stephens, winnipeg, canada

I agree with albert from frankfurt, i come from a split family with step brothers and biological brothers and we all share the same closeness and respect for our respective mothers. Times have indeed changed and this is not a universally correct assumption made by the author

David, Farnborough, England

It is nice to see that there are some caring sons out there. I adored my Mother, she loved me very much, but she also loved her son, who treated her with contempt and I am disgusted to say never came near her the six months before she died. this made her very sad and me angry

cherry, london, uk

There is a saying in Indian Tamil that Father and Mother are the visible gods. This is the way all mothers are respected in our society. Yes the men who are very close to mother is unattractive to other women but loving and caring a mother is manliness.

Appan , Hounslow, London, UK

One of the things that attracted me to my husband was his affection for his mother...

jen, london,

Howard,Manchester-hello,you sound like a great man, supremely emotionally healthy,funny,honest and caring.Your mum and family should be proud of you.

vj, london, uk

I totally disagree. I am 23 and there is a shift in my generation, letting men appear much more flexible, honest and understanding if they care about there mother and are conscious about the good she has done. The figures described in the text have been overcome: its just you, its not universal.

Albert, Frankfurt,

In Wales, men, are very close to their mothers. Married men are often rescued by their mothers from the flames of dragon wives. Other men can never bring themselves to ever leave the family home and live on into comfortable middle-age caring for their mothers until finality. Very comendable.

Colin, Carmarthen, Wales

A former boyfriend once told me "When you have a mother like mine, who has adored me all my life, what women can live up to that?" I think that says it all......

samantha, London,

It is often given as advice to single and seraching women (or so I've heard) that a man will treat his wife the same way he treats his mother. It follows from this that a man who doesn't have a good, comfy relationship with his mum is unlikely to be totally open with his wife.

Tim, Ealing,

Well I disagree with William's mum. I would dearly love to see and hear more of mine (he is 27). When tackled about this, he basically says that knowing we are OK leaves him free to enjoy his own life without worrying about us . I find it a bit disappointing - I'd like him to worry a bit more.

H Paul, London, Middlesex

I dreamed about my dead mother last night. She seemed happy to see me. I was not very happy to see her again.

robert, vancouver, bc

There are mothers who have abandoned their sons, and sons who have abandoned mothers on one end of the spectrum and on the other end, just the opposite..Where each of us are on the spectrum depends on our family values, culture, beliefs, and our unique personalities. BTW, My mom lives with me

Mat, Tallahassee, , USA

someone said it above and i will just repeat it: this idea is alien to eastern societies be it chinese, indian or arab. as muslims, we are raised with the belief that duty to one's mother is far greater than anybody else including fathers.

asp, minas,

Wmen only find men who are controlled by their mothers deeply unattractive, not those who love them. Men dressed by their mother - I knew a lad who's wife bought him a pair of jeans and he refused to wear them cos his mother would disapprove. EEK!! My husband loves his mum and so do I

Catherine, Strasbourg, France

@ Anu SIngh
ignoring your mother is one thing, but depending on her to do your laundry, etc is another. Is that what Indian men mean by being close?

Molitor Patel, Vienna,

I agree with the writers who say that these are cultural constructs...Indian men are very close to their mothers and feel no shame in being so. In fact, they are often way too close for a wife's comfort! What woman in her right mind would want a man who ignores his own mother?

Anu Singh, Singapore, Singapore

When I'm on the 'phone to my mother she wants to cut the conversation short to watch Coronation Street.

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

Dads civilise their boys in ways that mothers can't. My Dad was a friend who's shoes my mother can't hope to fill.

Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK

Men are just less likely to phone anyone simply for a chat - that's a woman thing. My boyfriend always says he can't understand why his mum phones him just to tell him she's been to the post office and has bumped into someone he doesn't know! I have to explain she just wants to hear his voice.

Jess, Reading, UK

My boyfriend has no qualms about how great his mother is. I like that and agree, she is wonderful. I do feel a little weird however about her calling him 'my number one pin-up' and saying how gorgeous and wonderful he is all the time...

Miss williams, NYC,

my husband rings his mum about once a week. which is as often as i call mine!

EVEE, stoke,

That reminds me, i better call my mum.

chetas patel, croydon, united kingdom

er, it is very hard for me to understand, how could a son take some call to her mum become so shame? is that so called "independence" prevented people to do the simplest and most essential connection with parents? that is silly!

cty, zhejiang, china

"Most women get meagre reward from most men."

Not since the latest divorce-law reforms! Now you normally get more than 50% of everything he's ever had - or will have.

Conversations about mothers are just not that interesting. That doesn't mean we don't love them or call regularly.

David Space, London, UK

William Sutcliffe, I totally agree with your excellent article. However, did you consider that the mother-son relationship you analyse is strictly cultural? In the cultural environment I come from (Italian) this relationship remains very close and the son acknowledges and is proud of it. Mamma!

Alessandra, Milano, Italy

it depends on whether or not you have a western or asian mother

in asia, it's common to live with your mother and extended family, even after you're married

Jack, London,

Errr, are you sure you're a bloke? Men may sometimes feel 'guilty' about not ringing their mums because basically they just don't (the guilt feeling being imposed by the mum).There is no point. She is a different generation and a different sex, pretty much eliminating any common point of view.

Matt, Perth, Australia

Really interesting comments from everybody. It's as interesting to see a man's point of view as a woman's point of view.

In my opinion, a mother's love is unconditional: you will never find a love like that. They give so much but never expect anything in return.

Jini ''Twahi'' Sebakunzi, St Louis, US / Missouri

Well written, well done: introduced a new perspective to my views of the different relationship developed (a) in the child's life cycle and (b) between a mother and her son and daughter.

Giuzeppe, New Malden, U. K.

This is only half true, I have two brothers, one is at Uni, one is about to go. The one at Uni phones Mum at least once a week, if not more, the other has told me that he will ring me often (his big sister) but probally keep in contact with Mum much. Both men, both totally different.

Eleanor , Hampshire ,

Well, looking at the comments, it seems as if everyone has a different experience. Mine personally is that, since going to university, I've found it very difficult to stay close to my family. I'm told that I'll get a fresh appreciation for my mother at some point, and I look forward to it!

Anna, Plymouth, UK

Once you have children, you're always a mother; but as sons grow older they have to join the world of men, and inevitably leave their mother behind to some extent. Even so, a good son/man will always treat his mother with love and respect.

Debbie, London,

My son lived with me until I left home. He was 32 when I decided to spread my wings. I am now happily independent and he is happily married. No problems...But I agree, he doesn't call me that much. But then I am living on the opposite side of the ocean.

Caroline Kennedy, San Jose, Costa Rica

It's so sad to see that all "cool" British parents can talk about is how to get rid of their children as soon as possible. Should they not concentrate more on how to build a happy, long lasting, flexible relationship with the most important people in their lives?

teo, Rome,

What a load of rubbish.
I am caring for my mother who has a degenerative disease.I am proud and honoured to do so.In fact I find it gives me great inner strength.The problem is we live in an increasingly selfish society and spend all our lives focusing on things that are only temporary at best.

James, London, U.K.

"Ask any man when he last phoned his mother...."

Yesterday afternoon. And proud.

We are a family unit, it's us against the world, none of this mother-son awkward rubbish.

Hi mum

Howard, Manchester,

Whatever the angst with relationships with mothers, particularly the consequences of their competition with their daughter in laws and not being able or willing to let go; the sad thing is that when they die you wish it had been different and now there is nothing you can do.

Bereaved Son.

Fenester, Winchester, Hants

In a changing world, where nothing is a constant, mothers will always be mothers. I am 37, and call my mother everyday. She's been the pillar, I've always lent on. If that makes me less attractive to women so be it. The world will turn its back on you, mothers will always be there for you.

Arya Rudra, Kolkata, India

I lost my father when I was 15. My brother then became the man of the house. All through his 20's and thereafter, he phoned my mother almost daily. What caring! He is now the father of two lovely boys. Death teaches us that we can easily lose those we love.

Lynda Foster, Altrincham, cheshire

I have a son who is 15, 6ft and a hunky rugby player. This article alarmed me. I can't say that I've made a conscious decision to hand him on - I just want him to be happy. He is tender hearted, tough, stroppy and all those things that teenage boys are. I don't have a master plan to toughen him up.

Diana, Surrey,

I have to take issue with the idea that women don't like a man to be close to their mother. I've always found that one of the most reliable ways to judge a man is the way he treats his mother. A man who treats his mother with love and respect is likely to do the same to his partner. It works!

LH, Cardiff,

Sadly to say it but I feel this is a very British thing about mothers and a very middle class thing too. it is somehow indoctrinated to get the boy away from his 'mummy' as soon as possible. Boarding school is the British answer to getting boys away from mum quickly; mother love is embarrassing!

lara, Oxford, England

Best lesson for any mother of sons: be grateful they weren't girls.
Next lesson: love them and let them go. Freedom is a very powerful thing - in any relationship.
First comment was 'tongue-in-cheek' - slightly. I have two grand-daughters and a grandson
We all meet, most weekends, willingly.

Charlotte Peters Rock, Knutsford, England

Needless to say, there are many dysfunctional families (and many varieties thereof) around today, which sometimes stretch the mother/son/lover bond to to the absolute - perhaps it has roots in our current focus on "value-added" economic benefits...I don't know!

I'll always love my mother though.

Mark Time, Glasgow, Scotland

Maybe we men just realise that mummy used to bathe us and that our emerging masculinity was just as impressive as the performances we boast about as macho adult males.

Ray Massart, Hombeek, Belgium

Guilty about having a good relationship with one's mother. What rot! I have always had a good relationship with my mother, I phone her almost as often as I should, and value her opinion, and I am totally unashamed.
I would wish the same for my sons.

Fred, London,

How do you say it???? Bolder-Dash ol' Man....i call my mother almost every night. I have just hung up the phone arranging a party for her 90th birthday with about 20 people with whom I went to elementary school with. Mom was a volunteer at the school helping out in the offices and school cafeteria..

Timray, La Mesa, United States

and lest i forget.....more men own cats than dogs....hello...stereotyping aren't we???

Timray, La Mesa, United States

What a shame about the last sentence. What a let down, after I was starting to think that he actually worked out that his mother was a free-thinking person apart from her relation to him. Are women always forever a child and then also forever a mother? Most women get meagre reward from most men.

EG, Herts,

When sons discover that their mother is female and they are male, they think that they are their mother's little warrior and do everything for her. Then they discover that their mother is a woman and they are a man, so they stop. Then when they want children they look for the mother figure again.

EG, Herts,

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Men and their mothers. What's it all about?

Ask any man when he last phoned his mother, and he will pull a guilty face. Ask him when he last talked about her to his friends and he will look at you as if you are insane. Why is the mother-son relationship so complicated? To find out, our correspondent asked someone who should know – his mum

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