Dear Bel,
My husband’s messiness is driving me insane. I have been married for 17
years and known him for 23. We have three children from 11 to 16 and live
abroad, both working in demanding jobs. My husband travels a lot; I hardly
travel at all. I went back to full-time work six years ago, having done some
consultancy work while bringing up our children. Between jobs, chores and
children there is little quality time for each other, but we accept this and
share tasks as much as possible. However, the bulk of the organising, the
running of daily family life and household falls on me. This is not because
my husband won’t do it, it’s more that he is often away and even when at
home has further to travel than I do and leaves the house well before the
rest of the family, returning at around 8pm.
He is a lovely, gentle person, kind and generous, a wonderful father, a
rock in my storms. We adore him. He does the shopping and is a wonderful
cook. The problem – my problem – is that he’s impossibly messy and
disorganised. Admittedly, I found this out early on in our relationship. I
remember my shock at the mess in his student room. It didn’t seem to matter
so much back then.
Here are some of the things he habitually does: walks in, discards his
shoes in the middle of the floor; leaves his dirty socks wherever he takes
them off; never hangs up his coat; leaves piles of loose change on any
surface available; leaves nail clippings on the floor; spills and doesn’t
wipe up; leaves tumble-dried and potentially wearable clothes in a heap on
top of the washing machine; leaves beard shavings in the sink; turns the car
into a dustbin; rarely fills in cheque stubs and when he does it’s
illegible, causing chaos.
He doesn’t like his bad habits being pointed out but says he’ll try to
change. He tries, then inevitably reverts to his former behaviour. Until
four months ago we had never had any domestic support. To address one thing
that frequently reduced me to tears (the heap of tumble-dried clothes that,
if dealt with, wouldn’t have needed ironing), I decided to get a cleaning
lady. She does most of the laundry but there’s an undercurrent of resentment
on my husband’s part that we are now paying for domestic help. I’ve chosen
to ignore him on this one.
As a couple we are unusual. We’ve never had a row, respect each other
enormously and do not wish to hurt each other. Yet I can’t seem to solve his
slobbish behaviour. I don’t want to pick up shoes, hang up coats, pick up
nail clippings and dirty socks from the floor. I don’t want to switch off
lights, throw out dried-up food or sort out mess in the car. I find myself
feeling so angry that I just cannot stand it any more.
–– Catherine
You prefixed your letter with an apology that this isn’t serious enough to
warrant my attention. Some readers may think it trivial; many (both genders)
will identify. Yet it’s a real issue upsetting you, and from such small
sparks come conflagrations that end marriages. What happens when small
annoyances start to threaten longstanding love? When I read the list of your
husband’s misdemeanours I thought “Yuk – I couldn’t live like that,” and it
was odd how that feeling offset your fulsome praise of his character. Anyone
who accuses you of pettiness misunderstands the essential nature of
marriage.
Regarding your home life through the lighted window of your description, two
things shine out. First, you are both far too busy and tired, and probably
feel trapped because you see no way of changing the situation, simply
because of the demands of work. Second, although the quality of your
relationship is not in doubt, you have tended to put unsullied harmony and
mutual respect on a pedestal, at the expense of expressing your true
feelings. Proudly, you say you never quarrel, but many therapists regard
that as unhealthy. It’s clear, for instance, that your husband must have
been a slob for all the years you’ve been together, but you have bitten your
lip because you didn’t want to nag. Yet at the beginning, when you were
young, it wouldn’t have counted as nagging. Young couples can mould to each
other’s ways, giving and taking, discussing, getting mad, making up –
growing together. But for years you picked up after him and let him trash
the kitchen because you loved him and were so grateful for his good
qualities. Maybe you compared him with your father and felt lucky. Now that
he’s older, frazzled and feeling isolated within the family home, this
aspect of his nature is becoming a focus for other things that make you
unhappy – which you must address.
You say there’s “little quality time”, then brush the point aside with “we
accept this”. I don’t believe it. It’s imperative that you sit down together
and thrash out some of the issues, before you flip and garrotte him with two
unironed shirt sleeves or crack him over the head with that jar on which he
failed to replace the lid. You’d like him to travel less, have more time
with the children, help you with the masterplan of organising home and
family. He might like not always to cook when he’s at home; he might long to
be less rock-like and tell you all his troubles. You need to ask him why he
resents paying for help, not ignore it; he needs to listen carefully to you
when you explain how his thoughtless untidiness is spoiling things. Since
you are both so shattered a lot of the time, shouldn’t you be talking long
term to see if work patterns can change? You have to address the quality of
your life, which is a bit stained and crumpled itself at the moment.
Why don’t you call a family “summit”? Those children are certainly old enough
to do their bit – and I bet they tend to ape their father and make a mess as
well. You need to employ some of the tricks and rules those super-nannies
(and competent parents) use to achieve some discipline in the home. What
about a good old-fashioned rota of chores – from cleaning the kitchen to
making sure coats are hung up to Dysoning floors? Put it up on the wall, and
instigate rewards and fines. If your husband sees how serious you are and
feels a part of a new system rather than someone who is picked on, he might
just learn to respect your wishes. After all, if you know it upsets your
partner to see you clipping your toenails on to the bedroom floor, and yet
you still do it, you are snipping away at your relationship – and shouldn’t
be surprised if it gets swept into the dustbin.
DO YOU NEED ADVICE?
Do you need advice about your relationships?
E-mail your problems to: bel.mooney@thetimes.co.uk
or write to her at: times2, 1 Pennington Street, London E98 1TT.
Details such as your age are helpful. Please include your real name, but we
will use your chosen pseudonym if you wish. Bel Mooney reads all letters but
cannot enter into personal correspondence
I have many same issues w/ my hubby but am realizing that he will never come all the way up to my standards, & I could never live at his, so I'm attempting to compromise. I'll collect & do his laundry if he'll clean his trash out of the car, etc.
Janelle, Branson, USA
Oh you made me laugh a lot!
Not because I don't understand the seriousness of the situation but just because I have a similar if not worse case in my family! Same as Catherine: it started with his room when we were students, something unbelievable to which I didn't pay much attention then...it ended up with a everyday hell when he is around and even when he is not: apart from shoes, socks etc. everywhere, drawers, doors left constantly opened, signs of his passage all over the rooms, money, credit cards, keys, mobiles lost in the mess...as soon as he gets out you can be sure he has forgotten something: he promptly calls me to bring him either the wallet, or his mobile, or...whatever he failed to find in his disorganised preparation to go to work. Once he even called me from the airport as he forgot the passport...now he has been living alone because I had to come to UK for few months and he told me he is without gas as he cannot find the card to recharge it (as it uses there)!!!
Eloisa, Durham, UK
The messiness that you have problems with all seem to be based around visual aspects eg things left lying around. Perhaps they drive you mad because you are a visually oriented person and he isn't.
You mentioned he is a great cook so perhaps he is more 'taste' oriented.
Try asking him how he would feel if he had spent a long time preparing a delicious meal full of delicate nuances of taste and you smothered it with ketchup. This might help him to really understand why it is such a big deal for you. Only when he truly understands this might he be prepared to change his ways.
Judith, Southampton, Hants
My husband hates the fact that I'm not tidier and more organised. I find it a constant battle between accepting that he's more organised than me and adapting so that we can live a harmonious life, and knowing when he's being petty and making a mountain out of a molehill. I can make a guess at what Catherine's husband might be feeling: he's making a stand for his own (messy) identity, and fighting against going down a route that might leave him a slave to what he might regard as his wife's anal retentiveness. And guess what? Despite my husband's neatness, he still leaves used dental floss lying round all over the place!
Ali, London,
Sounds like a normal bloke - they can't see their own mess If I make a mess in our house (e.g. leave a huge pile of letters and papers in the middle of the floor) my husband to be soon notices and this opens up the debate of who is the messiest and then he generally has to agree that it is him - with his pile of picked off foot skin beside the bed and pile of clean washing (which I have done!) hanging about on the the dressing table(!), rugby kit still in a bag in the kitchen, toast crumbs all over benches etc.
Catherine should count herself lucky - whilst my man cleans his stubble out the sink, he does pick his nose and eat it at every opportunity!!
(I should point out that on the plus side, he does most of the DIY because I - conveniently - can't reach or it's too heavy ha ha!)
Lindsay, Bristol,
Trying to change someone after 23 years is a pretty tall order, and anyway if he's always been like this why does it suddenly matter. I think you're avoiding dealing with another problem by focusing on tidyness. Why does a tidy home matter? My partner behaves in the same way but he's lovely in other ways and yours sounds the same. Try & focus on his good points and in times of stress repeat after me "Dull women have tidy houses"
Shut your ears to "friends" and family who look down their noses at you. The state of your house is none of their business. People and relationships are much more important than material things. Kick your shoes off pour yourself a drink, relax and enjoy your family, sod tidyness who cares?
carol Hoy, St Albans, UK
Perhaps he's unmethodical - but nail clippings and dirty socks apart are you being realistic about what he can achieve with a long day and travelling? Target the really nasty habits and forget the well-meaning and messy ones! (I am thinking of the dryer and the gently creasing clothes) Are you a bit stressy? I am thinking of your 'storms' here - do you want an immaculate home? Give him a break and some encouragement, and a hurrah for his cooking and his kindness! (Cooking can be unbelievably messy work!) You are obviously both very busy and stressed - so talk to him properly - it doesn't have to be a row. It sounds like he just does not realise how much needs to be done, hence the resentment of a cleaner. I feel some sympathy for him - as someone whose brain wiring is exceedingly disorganised too.
carolinebunney, gerrards cross, england
As the person who would be the 'dirty' part in this relationship I say: it's all down to the sense of cleanness people have. I can trip over things for days and have no issue with that at all, but sharing a house I know I must respect other people's sense of from where the real mess starts.
My advice is: accept you husband does not share your view on keeping the house clean to the same degree.
Share the space into the strict-clean areas - say, kitchen, hallways, and give up on places you don't find critical in terms of keeping nice and tidy.
State that clearly to your husband, highlighting this option will really help you to feel better in your house.
I assure you pressure on me to tidy up a lot can be as much inconvenient like you forced to do that job. Cleaning after your husband really, satisfies your need to keep the place up to your standards and if you suffer to anything here is that your husband does don’t share the same picture.
Hanna, London,
i agree u should have sorted this long time ago, but he's some way there if he does shopping and cooking...sounds like u want to spend more time with him and are picking on these things as way of venting frustration.
Suggestions:
shoes in the middle of the floor
-leave them there unless you've got visitors (does it really matter??) or ask (not tell) him to move them
dirty socks left wherever taken off
-if they dont go in the laundry basket they dont get washed. When he doesnt have any clean socks left he'll get the idea....
not hanging up coat
-so? he'll have to wear a crumpled coat!
change left on any surface available
-easy - collect it and use it to pay the cleaner!
nail clippings on the floor
-ok thats pretty nasty
spills & doesn’t wipe up
-all men do that
leaves tumble-dried clothes in heap on washing machine
-at least he knows what one is!
leaves beard shavings in the sink
-at least he shaves
cheque stubs
-people still use cheques?
CJ, london,
Perhaps he is naturally unmethodical but nail clippings and dirty socks apart, are you realistic about what he can achieve with a long day and travelling? Encourage him to do what he does best. Do you want an immaculate home - or one just good enough? Also hurrah for him cooking! It is always messy - how about "those who cook do not clear up" or vice versa to share the chores. Disgusting, dirty habits are not the same as messy, forgetful and maybe well-meaning ones (ie the dryer and the gently creasing clothes)! Perfection is unreal so target the very bad habits and forget the rest! Try to talk more - and be gentle - I am thinking of your 'storms' here! You are both so stressed and busy. I disagreed with Bel quite significantly on this one!
caroline , gerrards cross, england
Living abroad and both working - there is no question that there should be full household help , that is a no-brainer. Frankly, the husband sounds disgusting, however kind and generous he supposedly is. But the problems mentioned should have been thrashed out years ago - do they not talk to each other?
Elizabeth, Valencia, Spain
40 years of emancipation? get a 24/7 maid.
robert, vancouver, bc
Oh no Bel - I agreed with you until you called the family summit. Children, however old, should not be brought into their parents troubles and one partner should not belittle another in front of the children, which is what bringing rotas and chores would mean. By all means get children to play their part in family life but not as a part of "let's get at dad".
Claire, Bath,
Have to say that he sounds fairly normal to me. Get him back by sqeezing his spots and pulling out his nose hairs.
Alicia, London,
I have to say, my husband is pretty good about chores (he's 71) but wants his rewards too. I do not clean the house or make a god of tidiness: neither does he. I certainly didn't clean up for any of my cleaners when I had them. I set the rules and paid for their time. He didn't like it. Too bad, I got to the point when I did it anyway and he put up with it. Now I'm retired, he expected me to go back to doing it. I do, when I have the time: the kitchen is tidy even if the floor is unwashed ( who wants to eat off the floor anyway? Even the cat has a bowl!). But if I tidy up I throw out! If he's not there I can get rid of a lot. He wants to go through and pour over memories. I realise I can't afford to. His reward is his drink: he'll do anything for his beer, wine and scotch. He is generally well controlled with it...or is he? I watch the situation carefully lest he start to errode my well being and confidence. 'Nuff said.
Carlyle Braden, Croydon, U.K