seems like a list of other people's prejudices here. we haven't had a kicking, we simply haven't committed to the fight. whether you think we should be there or not, half-hearted won't work. aidan, there's enough chippy sectarianism there without adding your own unhelpfully bitter brand.

jem, london, uk

Brit army top brass never had any enthusiasm. Left wing liberal appointees. The Brits hold pointless inquests into every death, to allow media to lambaste American forces for incompetence or criminality. The poorly equipped &UK army no longer has stomach for wars. Leave it to the USA.

J Zilroy, Swindon, UK

The Western world has grown fat and lazy and no longer appreciates freedom nor the spread of it. As long Saddam was shelling out oil or money to Europe everything was cozy. Iraqis being fed into wood chippers could be overlooked as just the cost of doing business.

Melvin, Jacksonville, USA

The British just can't stop building empires and stealing other countries' resources. Oppressed the Indians, Southeast Asia, the mideast on several occasions. People just can't work together with mutual respect.

Leroy, Washington, USA

I can't avoid a smile as I watch the much vaunted british army get yet another kicking by a supposedly inferior fighting force. They have no business in Iraq. If they want to defeat war criminals, start with Whitehall and their police and army who freely committed attrocities in Northern Ireland.

Aidan Moloney, Athboy, Ireland

The only solution is not to nation build until all the behind the scences warring countries like Saudia Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan have been first brought to their knees while the west start to develop their own oil resources!

Ted Hayes, Manahawkin, USA

For centuries the legacy of the Brtish people has been great.
However, because of a self-indulgent generation weened on the largess of the government and moral equivalence and a country's where the indigenous is voluntarily turning itself into a minority to its ultimate enemies, Britain is doomed

L.J. Payne, ROCHESTER,

Of all the 46 other comments here so far, I've only seen a few giving rational opinions, rather than raving jingoistic sentiment and unnecessary hostility. Go to YouTube and watch the presentation made by Pentagon advisor Thomas Barnett at TED. Or any of his presentations.

Myles, Nr. London, England

This issue is related to why I believe the US should withdraw from NATO and count not one western European country as an ally. Either create your own military and use it, or get crushed by Islamofacists. America should stop caring about Western Europe, an actual enemy!

Jill, Tucson, US

I am very fortunate to be able to serve right here with a few members of the RAF (as I type there are three within an arms length). I couldn’t expect them to be any more professional than they are. They give the same blood, sweat and tears as we American forces. They believe in the mission and they march forward. Just as we do. Once again, thank you to the coalition forces for you help. We couldn’t do this without you!

Jason, Undisclosed Location,

Kidnapping of British Subjects should be front page news everywhere in the west. This, the first I have seen as media ignores inconvienient truth about reality in middle east.
Now, as then.
Anyone who doubts, read the report by Institute for Defense Analysis, IDA paper P-4287.

John R Skuce Jr

John R Skuce Jr, Mt Olive NC, USA

it never was your war, you say, but you are our ally. Tony Blair, to my knowledge, has not broken the Geneva Convention. If you have good reason to believe he has, please support your claim with evidence; otherwise it is completely ignorant to refer him to the war crimes tribunal. Curious,..

Katherine, Lynchburg, VA

"UK/US/Poland etc. have made a commitment to people in Iraq who have stepped up for Change and we cannot abandon them"

Nice coalition. Insisting "real" Iraqis are only those few that entertain your agenda is the height of tyranny.

Scott, Glasgow, Scotland

I don't recall editorial support for outright Imperial Rule of Basra by British Commanders, as the writer now seems to say was necessary. I do recall an aversion for casualties as combat for control of the city and attacks by IEDs would entail. How short and convenient some memories are.

Vincent J. Curtis, Cambridge, Canada

Going to take the counter view here and say that US influence in the ME has never been higher. The US/UK needed to support their words with actions to garnish support in the region. UK/US/Poland etc. have made a commitment to people in Iraq who have stepped up for Change and we cannot abandon them

Matt, Phoenix, USA

ok get real can we really increase our number of troops how many do you want,lets get out and stay ,out not our war,never was,commit tony blair to the war crimes tribunal

pat, solihull, uk

Sooner or later the govenments of the U.S. and Britian will realize that they are not going to 'succeed' whatever that means, and will be forced to withdraw. It will happen sooner than later for the U.S. as they will be forced by economics to withdraw at a time that will not be of their choosing. The sad thing is it will hasten the geopolitical influence of the U.S. worldwide, and it was all so unnecessary.

Bill, Baltimore, Maryland

Pull all western forces out and let them kill themselves.

Les, Northampton, Northants

Al Sadr states that he and his Mahdi Army will rise up and liberate Iraq.Where was he and his army when Saddam was in charge?

K Dodson, Stornoway , Scotland

NOT MUCH OF THIS CONTINUING PRESENCE IN IRAQ IS MAKING SENSE.

There should be so much promotion of "fear of withdrawal."

It is time to give Iraqis their nation back before too few are left to remember that most Shiite, Sunni or Kurd Iraqis described themselves as Iraqis above all else and religious or sectarian group members second…..

http://pacificgatepost.blogspot.com/2008/04/why-fear-withdrawal-from-iraq.html

PacificGatePost, N.A., U.S.

Perhaps they should retreat because they have lost,

Paulo, London, UK

The Americans blame us for not taking firm action in Basra and blame for failures can be pointed back at them too. The British have failed in Basra and allowed militias to rule. The Americans failed to take on the Sadr army years ago in Fallujah, instead accepting their ceasfire. The current situation is down to failure of all the western forces to take a firm stance and eradicate the enemy with zero negotiation. This blame is never down to the soldiers, they are doing the job asked of them. So bad mouthing the soldiers of other countries is unacceptable and those that have should pick up a rifle and try the job themselves. The failure is down to the the politicians and the generals that make poor decisions based on appeasment. Appeasment of us that they will try their hardest not to get our soldiers killed and appeasment of the enemy that they will be nice to them and arrest them rather than kill them. This is not the way to win a war. The enemy must be crushed to win a war.

David Smith, Stourbridge, UK

The Brits had the city quelled at one time. Remember the switch from helmets to berets? At some point the tide started turning and they retreated to the palace stronghold and it was out the gate from there. I'm not blaming English soldiers for that. From the blogs and articles I've read they wanted to stay and complete there mission. This is a failure of MOD and British gov't. policy. You can argue whether or not you should be there in the first place, but by God when you make the decision to go don't do it half heartedly!

Murph, Madisonville, USA/KY

Very interesting article.

I was personally shocked to see our troops forced to retreat under fire last year, a true disappointment and reflection upon the Blair legacy.

They are there they should be fighting, what would the WW2 generation think, poor show Mr Blair.

JC Spring., Birmigham, UK

Ref: Eva Ventura, Nottingham, UK.
Quote: "the British are playing the Vichy role"

Without realising what you have said, you have said it! The British are indeed playing this role - to the emerging Fourth Reich across the pond. Mind you France was conquered first - What's your excuse?

Barry Oldham, Manchester, Great Britain

World War 1 - 4 years. World War 2 - 6 years. World War on Terror (is this a World War?) - 7 years and counting. Without the same public support of the cause and commitment of human and material resources, the Iraq and Aghanistan conflicts will remain unresolved. Brings to mind the "police action" in Korea.

Doug Rhyason, Sherwood Park, Canada

Comments are for balanced opinions are they not Mr. Hall? Whilst a rant with excess amounts of capitalisation may feel good, it is exactly this form of unthinking and aggressive bias that leads to the troubles in the first place. A statement of fact is that violence has reduced following the American surge, and that violence has increased in Basra since the British step down in operations.
Unfortunately the issue of whether the Iraq war was the right decision is nigh on irrelevant, and will only have a real effect in terms of public opinion at home. I believe the soldiers are professional and trying their hardest no matter what their private opinions on the war.
What would be more interesting to discover more about Admiral Fallon's retirement from Centcom, which seems to have become silent.

Hugo, Cambridge, England

Quote: "The President finally listened to the top brass and poured in extra troops to quell the violence and it appears to have worked along with giving a few greenbacks to the sunni militias."
==============================

Boy have YOU drunk the Kool Aid (as the Americans say.

The Americans have been paying, arming, training and giving their strategic and tactical secrets to their enemies. How is this success? This is th crudest and most craven appeasement. Al Sadr's overwhelming and swift victory in Basra has shown who really has the Power in Iraq and it is NOT the USA/UK alliance.

The added humiliation of al-Maliki's trip to al-Sadr's hime city to negotiate the cease-fire merely hits home how much of a defeat the west has suffered.

Oh and some of the "cheques" the Americans have written to the Sunni's have started to bounce (metaphorically speaking) Unless the Americans start honouring their commitments soon, they will be attacked on two fronts by a large majority of Iraq.

Ken Hall, Barrow in Furness, UK

Today's problems in Basra actually stem from the fact that the whole invasion was based on a pack of lies and so the immoral forces where always doomed to failure. If you need to lie to justify war, the war is NOT just.

This is the simple reason that the Iraqi militia's will always win out. they are the Iraqi people, fighting for THEIR homeland, THEIR families, THEIR homes, THEIR country against soldiers who increasingly realise that THEIR venture is based on lies and is a doomed exersise in futility. The numbers used and the strategy and tactics are irrelevant to the overall picture. the invasion is NOT a just one and will fail accordingly.

Ken Hall, Barrow in Furness, UK

Mark in Columbus. Dont insult the British miliatary with your crude remarks, they do exactly as your brave men and women do, obey the orders of the politicians. Fotunately you have a President who is willing to stay the course however many casualties you take and their have been many. The President finally listened to the top brass and poured in extra troops to quell the violence and it appears to have worked along with giving a few greenbacks to the sunni militias. Im convinced that Al Sadar will rule Iraq one day and if the Iraqi people thought Saddam was bad wait till this fella gets his seat on the throne. They will be begging for you to invade again. God bless America and her few allies.

john, West Sussex, UK

The Brits hid in their base while the Americans were kicking butt during the surge. Now, the time has come to defeat Sadr and his Iranian backers. The Iraqi army will do it with American help. Too bad the Brits are just a bunch of wusses, but if you think Sadr is winning you're also fools.

E. O'Neal, Birmingham, U.S.

The government did the right thing in getting out of an Iraq they never should have invaded in the first place. More troops? Why? Let Bush enjoy the full measure of his folly in the last year of office and I hope the American people thank him appropriately in due course for lying them into a war that didn't need to happen. The families of over 4,000 dead US soldiers should be among those "congratulating" Bush for being so incredibly stupid and careless with respect to the lives of their loved ones. Britain is now out and that's good. Let the Iraqis decide their own fate either by standing up to petty tyranny at the hands of the militias or passively accepting it.

Steve Withers, Auckland, New Zealand

The under lying issue is one of under funding for both Iraq and Afghanistan missions by HMG. Budget reductions under Options for Change following the removal of the Iron Curtain. Were made on a set of assumptions that there would not be the out of area commitments to be fulfilled. In roll Mr. Blah and his cronies and suddenly HMG start committing to numerous out of area adventures. All this as a time when the percentage of GDP committed to the Defence budget was and is falling. The crumbs offered by HMG to cover year on year over spend of the Defence budget are plasters on a hemorrhaging situation. As the current Defence budget is £32.5Billion and there is no set aside budget to cover the £4Billion per year cost of conducting the two major operations we are engaged in. Hence the rest of the Defence infrastructure is being robbed in order to rightly maintain front line capability. It is about time HMG came clean and either put up the additional funding or bring the troops home!

Alan, Gosport, UK

'pathetic and cowardly forces' Mark Mercer, Columbus, USA

I think that you'll find that the decision to withdraw was based on policy , the British thought that simple brute force was a naive approach likely to cause more trouble and resentment in the future, and preferred to train the Iraqi troops and develop good relations locally. There is also not the same political will here for Iraq once we learnt that we were mislead into the conflict. The aim of the occupation is not to provide unneccesary cannonfodder to 'prove' the bravery of Armed Forces, it's not Hollywood. Our troops are not pathetic, man for man many people would say that they are better trained than the US Marines,and certainly in no way less up to the job, and i would bet on a British soldier any day to hold his ground if needed, our troops would actually prefer to clear an area themselves that the US forces would use air support to pound to the ground from a safe distance.

Jon Underwood, Edinburgh, Uk

The British government should be ashamed of itself for its failure to commit sufficient troops, and now it should be ashamed of itself for allowing the Americans to fill the breach on their own. The Americans have put on the mantle of responsibility and necessity; the British are playing the Vichy role.

Eve Ventura, Nottingham, UK

From 1215 it took the UK 700 years to emerge as a democracy and there was an English Civil War, numerous wars within the KIngdom and numerous overseas wars.
You can't foist democracy on a people - they have their own journey to take.
The Iraqis have to decide for themselves and it will be painful.
If the Americans want to look after Basra then let them.
We should stop treating the Iraqis as though they are from the Stone-Age and let them sort themselves out.

Ian, Melbourne, Australia

Funny how they blame the reduction in troop for the current problem when it is in fact the mere presence of all these boy-soldiers which formented the growing hatred being directed at them.

Bruno, Montreal, Canada

Infidels has never lost any of its meaning since the Crusades.
You Anglo Americans don't seem to be able to get your collective head around the idea that you invaded a sovereign country and no amount of spin will change that. With the exception of collaborators you are despised in the Arab world. If you stay you make everything worse. Move on, it's not your call anymore.

Thos O'Sullivan, chicago, Illinois

The UK should pull out and turn their AOR over to the Americans, they have no will to fight. Years of subversion have taken their toll, most british subjects wouldn't even fight to defend their own homes. Go home, get on the dole, and watch the landscape of your country change.

mike, chicago, usa

Mark in Columbus I find it laughable that you accuse the UK of "Screwing the Iraqi people" when the continuing American occupation is directly responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Also, since this bogus war was concocted by your lying politicians you're lucky anyone is there helping your butts at all!

Shaun, Halifax, Canada

Much of today's problem in the middle east are a direct result of GREED. When the US and UK pull the Israeli tapeworm out,this will all resolve itself. We can fight Israel's wars of aggression forever. In addition to going broke,people are starting to wise up.

ROBERT, San Antonio, usa/Texas

Tell me again why we are fighting Isreal's wars for them. I'm confused

ROBERT, San Antonio, usa/Texas

No Chris from Chesterfield, this is what happens when your pathetic and cowardly military fails to take the fight to the enemy. Thanks UK for 1: Screwing the Iraqi people and 2: Creating a situation where once again American Marines will have to ride to the rescue and do the job you should have done in the first place.

Mark Mercer, Columbus, USA

"Britain’s failure to commit the forces necessary to control Basra and southern Iraq in general" is simply because British "governments" have persistently sought to whittle down British military capacity. Thatcher for the sake of arbitrary reductions in funding on the pretext of forcing greater "efficiency", and subsequently as some "peace dividend" following the temporary improvements in relations with Russia and its vassal fiefdoms.

Now short-term political gimmicks are preventing us from suppressing a slide into a new world war! "Politicians"! Don't ya luv 'em? Clueless halfwits who are completely out of their depth.

John, Kent, Britain

To even talk about "winning the war" in Iraq, is to misrepresent the situation, which is a multi-faceted power struggle between a multitude of different groups.

The main division between Kurd, Shia & Sunni has been common knowledge since Gulf War 1 (although reportedly not by Bush). Each of the main divisions consists of various factions, but even these are not homogenous or fixed. As in Afghanistan, loyalties are traded as easily as arms.

Former Sunni insurgents are now on the US payroll and it was this, rather than the surge, which has led to a decrease in overall casualties. Because it doesn't have so many Sunnis attacking it, the US has decided to attack the Mahdi army (Sadr). This does seem to be a foolish move, even though US ground troops have not been committed. It will surely be seen as favouritism towards a particular Shiite faction, who ironically are much closer to the Iranian regime than the Sadrists.

Chris, chesterfield, uk

The triumphant statements of the Brown visit to Iraq just before the bottled election should be recalled. If he's as wrong about the British economy as he was about the situation in Basra, we might find living in Iraq preferable to living here.

tim holden, budleigh salterton,

ALL of Basra's problems can be traced back to the moronic decision to invade in the first place. We are not and never will be the cure, we're the disease.

graham, London, UK

How can Britain withdraw its troops now after creating the horrible mess in Basra over the false pretext of WMDs? Basra was stable under Saddam. Look at the situation there now.

The only honorable way to save face is for Britain to send in a "surge" of an extra 30 000 troops.
If it worked in Bagdad, it should work here as well, if we can call Bagdad a success.

SM Hussain, Hyderabad, India

the man who put us in this position ( tony blair) as escaped out the back door all our dead soldier should give him nightmares let him come back and sort is mess out

stuwheeley, worc's, uk

Lets face it. There was a meeting which went something like this:- UKGOV what do you need to make this go quiet? Defence chiefs more troops . . oh and by the way lots more standard issue equipment now! UKGOV ok you got it!. Defence chiefs Thanks my men will now be safe. UKTreasury. cut backs, trim budgets, more cut backs, the boss said pay no attention to what the PM is doing!
And so here we are.

Andy, London,

The failure of the American invasion of Iraq makes America vulnerable to many such repeated attacks in the years ahead.

Joel Welty, Blanchard, Michigan, USA

Britain isn't defending her home territory against an increasingly aggressive Islamic insugency -- why should she be expected to fight fascism in Iraq!?

john shaefer, Hollywood, USA

Right, Lads! Let's pack up our kit. Retreat to the Embassay compound. Evacuate the women, children, and dependants from the roof by helicopter to carriers awaiting off shore. No Vietnamese...OOPS! Wrong war.
England expects. Indeed.

Liam Ronan, Harrisburg, PA/USA

On no account should the lives of British troops be put at risk by intervening in a scrap between Shia factions. This seems to be about crippling the Sadr election hopes, rather than expelling militias, because the Badr corps are fighting with the so-called Iraqi army.

This is the kind of mess that happens when you get into unnecessary wars.

Chris, chesterfield, uk